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Powah academy: building

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powah tour

Militia

Posts: 49

Joined: 19 May 2012, 19:19

Post 24 Jun 2012, 21:49

Powah academy: building

:idea:

"Powah academy: building" is a brand new topic in wich we are going to pesent best build orders, analize economy part of gameplay and share all our practicaly prooved fitures. :) We suggest to base all information here on specific examples and cases. Everybody is welcome, but please, make your thoughts clear and your arguments reasonable. Try to add some pictures and videos to proove your point!

Have a nice discussions! :P


P.s. This topic is placed here but not in "Strategy central" because we want to share only information about multiplayer gameplay here. As far as Remake is multiplayer project first, this is a right place for this topic.
P.p.s. If you want us to add your replay in this 1st post, send us pm please :)

Replays:
Good example how to play problematic loc 4 on wilderness by Mulberry - http://www.ex.ua/view_storage/158209478718
Last edited by powah tour on 24 Jun 2012, 22:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Mulberry

Pikeman

Posts: 185

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Post 24 Jun 2012, 22:12

Re: Powah academy: building

There is a first post of our tournament analitics series. Here i want to present you my analisys of quater-final game on Across the Desert!

Here we go!

1) The best build order in this game. Loc 1. Deep red player!
- Red section: Very clever move with fast coal, gold mines and woodcutters on the north wich will give a great income in early game. Such a clever player! He has allready planned fast iron mine, so all resources for fast production is up even before his opponents do the same on their better locations! Also you can see circled sawmill plan on the north. This will help player o build more buldings on the north as fast as in the south because of clever timber delievery.
- Yellow section: Market placement is unique! perfect! All resoures for fast tree truncks trading near in the circled area!

Image

-The only big mistake wich made deep red player was his barrack placement. It is placed on naturaly unprotected area far from the village. The tower placement also failed. 2 towers on the north are almost useless i suggest to replace them to protect the barracks enterance (picture):

Image

2) Not the bad village was made by yellow player on location 2 . But he made 2 very important mistakes wich caused very slow game in the beginning.
- Red circled area: Buildings all over the town were prapeared for building, but player were giving and giving new tasks for his labourers. It looks like he wants to make everithing in the one moment!
- Low amount of serfs and not clever building caused resourses overwelming. Lots of them cant be delievered or was not necessary at all! Player had to few serfs but he was still delievering to the weapoon workshop! He should have build his 2nd school faster.

Image

3) Light green player on location 4 played bad in the early game but complete a good build order with rare units in the lategame.
- Lots of diagonal roads provided stone and time waisting. Early game was extremely slow. With - - - - - i suggest more fast and correct road placement.
- Town looks a little bit smashed to the south-east. Waisted place in the village.
- Absolutly useless 2nd storehouse.
- Farms with no fields.

Image

4) To be continued...
Last edited by Mulberry on 25 Jun 2012, 00:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Mulberry

Pikeman

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Post 24 Jun 2012, 22:40

Re: Powah academy: building

I want to share replay of very interesting game on wilderness. Use this information if you cant manage your build order on loc 4!

http://www.ex.ua/view_storage/158209478718
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Beerzoeper

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Blacksmith

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Location: Drinking beer somewhere

Post 25 Jun 2012, 02:13

Re: Powah academy: building

For everyone how can't stand it if someone has his first stonemason or woodcutter earlier then you have it: a trick for the fastest possible start.

Step 1: Let your first 3 builders build in 2 ways like this:
Image
Most people let them build together to the school first, and then extra roads for inn.. But they will take more time and you will have 2 roads less before they start building the school, if you do that.

Step 2: Micro your builders. This sounds very useless and maybe it is useless in this example, but you have nothing to do at the start, so everything can be usefull. Later in the game, it can help you a lot, because mostly you need to build at multiple sides at the same time, but you don't want your builders to cross the map and waste time with walking.

Image

Step 3: Now we come to the main part of this opening tactic: when your school is finished, and you have 3 builders and 4 serfs, like at Golden Cliffs and many other maps, you train first 2 builders, so you will have 5b and 4s. After that: 1 serf (5-5). After this you make 5-6 builders, while building the inns. 5 serfs are enough to bring timber and stone for the inns. Second thing is, after they are finished with bringing timber and stone, they have nothing to do because off your builders are all building the inns. Allow some builders (around 3) to make roads while building inns, but be carefull, your inns need to be ready as soon as possible. If you have 10 or 11 builders, start making serfs again, untill they are equalized again. If your inns are finished, make a building plan for 1 stonemason first. After that, block your inn's soon as possible (2 - 4 items in your inns don't matter). Wait a few seconds, till your builder has completed half of the building plan, before you make orders for the other stonemasons. The reason is, your serfs might just bring 1 wood and 2 stone to stonemason 1, 3 wood and one stone to stonemason 2, and so on. We don't want this, because your builders need to finish the first stonemason as quick as possible.

To proof this, i added a replay as an example of fast opening. It's situated at Golden Cliffs loc 4, and my first woodcutter* was ready at 8 minutes and 47 seconds, i challange you to be quicker!
(notice you have also the 'lucky factor', which means your builders will choose random locations to build around the building, and your serfs either take wood or stone at random level. When they first bring 1 wood, and then 5 stone, and then 5 wood, your builders have to wait. But this strategy is the quickest way to start your game i think.)

http://speedy.sh/rfM7u/Faststart.rar

*Maybe you think this is a bad loc for a woodcutter, but it's not, i'll talk about that another time:)
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Krom

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Knights Province Developer

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Post 25 Jun 2012, 05:07

Re: Powah academy: building

Blocking food delivery to Inn is a very clever idea! I wonder how didn't I thought about it myself, good advice :)
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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Florek

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Pikeman

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Post 25 Jun 2012, 10:03

Re: Powah academy: building

Well Krom, it's pretty standard for a long time. :P
powah gamin! - trusted source of best KaM Remake replays!
Conquest of Paradise - balanced 1v1 map in the spirit of maps like Golden Cliffs or Across the Desert
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Leeuwgie

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Sword Fighter

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KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Post 25 Jun 2012, 15:44

Re: Powah academy: building

Hey Mulberry, good job sofar. I suggest that you also explain in detail how the 'winefield removes a tree trick' works, for all the newbies out there. It's very helpfull sometimes.
No matter what, always keep smiling ~ Bassie (from Bassie & Adriaan)
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Mulberry

Pikeman

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Joined: 18 Apr 2012, 19:14

Post 25 Jun 2012, 16:15

Re: Powah academy: building

Updated: Hey! Cammon! Stop this trolling. This wine thing doesnt look like decent build order or something :D
Last edited by Mulberry on 25 Jun 2012, 16:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Jeronimo

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Knight

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Post 25 Jun 2012, 16:53

Re: Powah academy: building

I suggest that you also explain in detail how the 'winefield removes a tree trick' works, for all the newbies out there.
I dont use this trick. Can you explain what is it about?
Someone is a newbie. :wink:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

TREE REMOVAL
When you have 1 or 2 annoying trees that dont let you place a building, there is a quick solution to remove them.
Step 1: Build a winefield in Down-Right corner from that tree (tree will dissapear).
Step 2: Build a road upon that winefield (tile will be ready for construction).
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thunder

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Moorbach's Guard

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Location: In the Market

Post 12 Jul 2012, 07:26

Re: Powah academy: building

HI!

-I hear or read a lot place "extra woodcutters". How many woodcutters needly if the woodcutters are same Vienatte? One slice is never enough;)
-Where do we build barracks? in the city deeply defendly, or out from the city, near the front? Maybe this question will be part of the powah A buildings topic.

-Here is a game:
http://www.mediafire.com/?y5cckagiyimsnod
This game will show how do not play longpeacetime game (75) on highlandW or another maps. Every loc has many huge mistake! ...


Loc1:wines, built on coal, 4 school, unused irons, not enough workors, left 3 coalmines is wrong because there could build 6-8mines
Loc2: lately 2nd school.and more....
Loc3:early and lot wines,unused irons, wrong place of the barrack(?)
Loc4: wines, not enough buildings---not a lot troops, undefendeble city..
Loc5:-no comment...unfair playstyle!HOW DO NOT PLAY!!!!...7-8stonemason. Is it extra?:) I ve never seen same long road...
Loc6: lot buildings in the same time, little starvation, undefendeble Loc5bridge..., everywoodcutters work only halfmode(but wasnt needly the long road), and "like china"
well, i made some pics but every quality was bad...
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NL Vortex Damage

User avatar

Laborer

Posts: 14

Joined: 04 Jun 2012, 15:39

Location: The Netherlands

Post 20 Jul 2012, 12:55

Re: Powah academy: building

Hey beerzoeper,
I have smashed your challenge ;-)
I beat your time in the fast start with 8 min 25 sec.
Like 22 sec. faster then you. I hope you can beat that...
So we can learn from eachother.
The replay is uploaded, so you can study.
One important thing, as you see in the replay,
my builders/serfs have much time to relax, between building shifts hihi.
(I thinks i't good planning)
I used a little different way: what way, i will explain later ok.
Because i have now not much time, to write.
(I have not any used cheat)
To be continued....

And by 6 min the replay wil stop, but hit the continu button, and you will see.....

I hope you will enjoy/learn.
If you have any comments or suggestions.
Please say it.
I think so: 'How more knowledge together, how better ;-)'

Update: Winrar is working now for 200%;-)
So here is one link to the Winrar file
http://speedy.sh/34RZQ/Faster-then-zoepertje-Save.RAR

Laterzz And Peace
NL vortex Damage ;-)
Last edited by NL Vortex Damage on 20 Jul 2012, 20:08, edited 2 times in total.
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sado1

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Council Member

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KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 06 Oct 2012, 13:02

Re: Powah academy: building

I would like to give some simple tips for absolute beginners. I wanted to write it in another topic (as a reply to someone), but thought "hey, the academy topic is really dead, and that's a bad thing". I learned some nice tricks here back then (like the winefield tree removal trick :D), and we don't really have any resources for new players - the multiplayer mode it too damn hard without any help. So, here are my tips:


- You usually need 5 stonemasons, 4 woodcutters, and 2 sawmills at the start

- Later you MUST build more woodcutters (you should have 2 woodcutters for 1 sawmill) if you don't want to have wood shortage, especially if you plan making leather weapons.

- Try to build woodcutters far from the center of your city (even if there is no trees - they will get planted). If you have trees in the city center at start, build a woodcutter here, set it to "cut only". That is because trees in city center mean less building space, and you need as much building space as possible!

- Block unused wares in Storehouse: basically you can block the first 2 rows - except wood (you need to make 30-50 wood first, then you can block it), gold, wine. If you have trouble building corn-dependent buildings fast enough, you can also not block corn. All this blocking makes your serfs much more effective.

- After (or while) building the necessary woodcutters, the first thing you need is gold - you need to have at least 2 goldmines, 2 coalmines, 2 metallurgists(gold smelters) and 2 schools.

- Depending on how much gold you have at start, you might consider making the second school at start. If you have much gold, you can make it while building stonemasons, if not, you can build it after metallurgist.

- Your school(s) need to CONSTANTLY be used. If the schools are not making anything, make more serfs and builders. If you have 60 starting gold, you can make ~25 serfs and ~20 builders before you have gold production (that's a safe amount). When your gold production is up and running (when you have ~20 gold in storehouse) you should make much more serfs and maybe some more builders. Most players play with 30 builders and at least 70 serfs, the faster you produce them, the faster your city will be. Of course you need to have a good food production then, but with that much serfs and builders, building farms will be also much faster.

-if you have difficulty making enough food and army - try making bread only for the start (bread production needs less corn than swinefarms, and is much faster), if the map has fish then make 2 fisherhuts, if not then build 2 vineyards (each one needs 9 winefields, so you need to have ~18 wood for that, plus the wood for the buildings themself). This should be enough to rush for iron. (I usually make swines so I'm not sure how many farms and bread makers you need if you play like that, anyone could tell me, so I can update this message?)

-a good iron army production has at least 3 iron mines, 2-3 iron smithys, 2 weapon smithys and 2 armor smithys.

-If you can't make food and army fast enough for the peacetime, don't bother with making food. I know this is a bad practice and some guys here are going to argue with me there, but an army without food is still better than much food but no army.

-if you make only one type of food, you need 2-3 Inns - or the serfs won't be quick enough to bring that one type to 1 Inn, and your city will be hungry even if you have 100 sausages...

-make your buildings with sense. If you just built one iron mine, you should build metallurgist as fast as possible, the second and third iron mine can wait. Also, think about delivery times when planning a city. It's better to build weapon workshop near sawmill, not near barracks - serf needs to go from sawmill to workshop twice, but from workshop to barracks once. Similar for butcher/bakery, but this time you need to build them near... Inn. Why? Because bringing one pig from the swinefarm takes just a one serf, but taking 3 sausages from butcher to the Inn requires 3 serfs. It's better if they walk a short distance here.

-one building needs one coal mine. If you build 2 metallurgists, 2 iron smithys, 2 weapon smithys, 2 armor smithys, you need AT LEAST 8 coal mines. I'd build 9 though to be sure.

I am open to comments and will edit out the post if someone tells me that something might be done better :)
Last edited by sado1 on 06 Oct 2012, 19:48, edited 1 time in total.
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pawel95

Castle Guard Swordsman

Posts: 1912

Joined: 03 Oct 2008, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Location: "Pawel95" on Youtube.com

Post 06 Oct 2012, 14:36

Re: Powah academy: building

Nice tips do you wrote here.
Only the coal mines,
-one building needs one coal mine. If you build 2 metallurgists, 2 iron smithys, 2 weapon smithys, 2 armor smithys, you need AT LEAST 8 coal mines. I'd build 9 though to be sure.
I am maybe a big fan of making much coal(because of trading for corn/wood.....) However i make at least 10-12 coal mines, if I build iron, because coal is one of the most importnant recources in Kam,isnt it?
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sado1

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Council Member

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Post 06 Oct 2012, 15:00

Re: Powah academy: building

Well, I wrote "at least". And I just wrote how much these 8 buildings alone need - if you want to trade, it's obvious you need 2-4 additional coalmines. But one building that uses coal, needs about one coalmine.
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pawel95

Castle Guard Swordsman

Posts: 1912

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KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Location: "Pawel95" on Youtube.com

Post 06 Oct 2012, 16:16

Re: Powah academy: building

Ok, than its fine :D Iam only asking :P
I am not such a bad player, only sometimes i get problems with MAX labours+how much farms. =My timing is really bad often.
Can you give me their some tips ? :$

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