Release candidate

[sado1]

Away sounds great, activity check seems a bit too complicated when a simple Away state of the Ready button would do the job. Not to mention, it lets me simply hit away and go afk whenever I need.

[Ben]

Could someone tell me all the unit stat changes made in 6478 as compared to 5503? I know that Xbows are stronger vs iron, for example, but I'm curious about the exact changes for everything.

[pawel95]

Well, we can go step by step As far as I remember: The bolts of the xbows pierce iron armors stronger/better. This way xbows are way more usefull, if the enemy has knights/swordmen. Everything else is the same like it was, if I am correct. I hope I could help you at least a tiny bit

[Ben]

I know that Xbows are stronger vs iron, for example, but I'm curious about the exact changes for everything.

[Kamykos]

I know that Xbows are stronger vs iron, for example, but I'm curious about the exact changes for everything.

Same question here . I would like to see the list of all changes if it is possible .

[Lewin]

I know that Xbows are stronger vs iron, for example, but I'm curious about the exact changes for everything.

Same question here . I would like to see the list of all changes if it is possible .

Xbows are not stronger against iron. The shields bonus is now smaller for xbows than for bows. So xbows are stronger against swordfighters, axefighters, scouts and knights. I'd be interested to know if this change has made xbows more useful.

The only other unit stats change since r5503 is that storm attack goes further and is more predictable now (I've made some minor changes to that since RC1 so you can't storm indefinitely).

A proposed change that hasn't been implemented (yet) is to make bowmen take slightly longer to reload (to make xbows more useful and reduce bowman spam). I'd be interested in feedback on this idea, especially if crossbowmen are still rarely being used.

[dicsoupcan]

The good news is that people are experimenting with it and on first sight they seem usefull. the bad news is that we cannot make a great conclusion yet.

[Kunstenaar]

This is makes me excited for the next release. Seems like every unit except scouts have a good purpose now!
Or are there any changes for the scouts aswell?

[Da Revolution]

This is makes me excited for the next release. Seems like every unit except scouts have a good purpose now!
Or are there any changes for the scouts aswell?

No scouts hasn't been changed. They are indirectly worse now due to changes of xbows.

[pawel95]

Yes, my opinion here.

I have watched many games and played a few games and there is a positive "direction". In every game with 8 players you have at least 1 player who makes xbows and try new strategies. As I can see for now, many of these tests were successfull. Though you shouldn´t use xbows, to play the "shoot and go back"-game against bowmen Sure the argumentation "Bowmen are cheaper and kill the same amount of units" is correct then, but when you use these new xbows in a way how you should use them: Against melee units attacking you /horses rushing you, it looks for now like xbow players have a good advantage.

The only problem that I have seen, is what I just wrote about bowmen VS xbows (xbows can die also by one hit). That means that these xbows (how they are right now) won´t work in 1vs1 or even 2vs2 games, because players with xbows and axefighters will just loose this "ranged duell" and the axefighters aren´t really a challenge for bowmen+swords
However in games with at least 6 players, these "supporter" units do their job very well, when you use them correctly


The only unit that is totally "useless" is the scout, but there is a topic about it already

[Bence791]

TSK 07 bug: After the fight between our ally and the enemy, they send militia to attack, which causes the 16 pink lance carriers not to lead (they were first in the original iirc :p) dark blue into battle against us. They just stand there and die of hunger later on (there is a high chance that at least 1 of the lancers die, I guess the attacking troop count messes it up).

[pawel95]

Oh no. More campaign bugs in the already fixed missions
Bence, can you send me replays of all missions where you found a bug? Looks, like you are playing the campaigns again. That can help me at fixing

[sado1]

I am slightly surprised to see that people so far are praising the xbows change. Let me predict something. It is a prediction, cause I didn't play enough games yet after my break to be sure, but it's based on my experiences so far. In a month, we will all find out the xbows are overpowered. Why so? Because knights are so easily eaten by them that we're going to get back to the times when it didn't make sense to play with horses because xbows were eating them up even without melee support. The fact that even in previous release, attacking 20-30 xbows with ~5-7 horses meant that the horses will die even if the xbows won't have melee for protection, makes me wonder how bad is that going to be in this release. Of course it's possible to flank the enemy but he can simply turn around and eat the horses. A small and mobile group of horses should be able to easily hill off ranged even if it gets shot. I am not sure yet about swordmen - it's likely that they die under xbows just like they should, we need time to test it. For those that don't remember - swordmen and knights being too weak for xbows means that we are back in the xbows+lancers combo times. Of course it can be different now since bows are more powerful etc. and only the time will tell how good or bad the balance now is...

Possible solutions, if I am going to be right: (note: I am not suggesting that they are needed yet! I am simply pointing them out for later)
-change the "shield bonus" for xbows back a bit. In tournament beta it was 50%, now it is 25%, let's make it something like 40-45%.
-change the "shield bonus" for knights and scouts alone. (On an unrelated note, we could make the anti-ranged defence value the same for scouts and knights, if we want scouts to get buffed up a little bit, but this is unrelated to the topic)
-time. Time heals many things, and I predict that with time, we might think of a way to beat xbows up. The obvious one would be to outmicro xbows with bowmen but I am not sure if that's going to be enough.

In a month or two, I am going to get back to this topic and verify whether I was right or wrong.

[pawel95]

I never saw a single game where players "lost" with their knights, because the enemy has xbows? Sure it´s harder to "dance with horses" when the enemy has xbows, that´s a positive point, but I can´t really understand you post. I couldn´t see any game so far, where knights had a disadvantage or lost hard because of xbows?! You are experimenting with numbers to increase and decrease, while many players (Like Ben) doesn´t even know what the change was really about. Why decreasing sth ? One other important thing: The Market values haven´t still be changed. That means, it´s still (too) easy to have horses without stables by just wasting 8 wood (4 axes e.g). So don´t start with "noone will make knights" please, when you say yourself that it´s only a prediction and there wasn´t really a game where knights were useless because of xbows AND you can these "weak?" units up to now, easily from the market... To your change of shield bonuses only for scouts and knights, to get scout back to the game, you can see here that scouts aren´t weak only because of the fast death by ranged units, more the balance between swordmen and scouts doesn´t work in the remake (http://www.twitch.tv/pawel95masterofhorses/c/3704661)

[Vatrix]

Found bug in MapED:



Happens even inside map, appears and disappears randomly.