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Campaign difficulty riddiculous

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frank

Peasant

Posts: 2

Joined: 31 Mar 2020, 15:47

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Post 31 Mar 2020, 15:49

Campaign difficulty riddiculous

Is there a reason why campaign mission are so hard?
You start with poor army while the computer as huge army?
Just getting wreck over and over. There is no fun in this game...
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cmowla

User avatar

Knight

Posts: 424

Joined: 04 Aug 2013, 19:59

Location: United States

KaM Skill Level: Expert

Post 31 Mar 2020, 19:38

Re: Campaign difficulty riddiculous

You can play it in an alternate way to make the difficulty easy. For example, TSK 14 in 25.5 minutes. And if this seems to make it TOO easy, you can challenge yourself by trying to win a campaign mission as fast as possible (TSK 20 in 4.5 minutes) or by playing very difficult (two-player) maps like this or trying to beat moderately difficult maps with 0 losses.

Or ... you can go to multiplayer, where everyone starts out fair and square and you get to (well, you MUST) become better acquainted with the economy aspect of the game.
Invasion and Lava Valley with 0 losses|Invasion (without saves)|TSK 20 in 4.47 minutes|Northern Islands I Co-op in 1.71 hours
What makes me an Expert isn't my skill in of itself but my desire to win big.
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frank

Peasant

Posts: 2

Joined: 31 Mar 2020, 15:47

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Post 03 Apr 2020, 16:06

Re: Campaign difficulty riddiculous

Thank you for the answer.
Yeah the only way to win campaign is to go as fast as you can which is not really fun.
The only way is to play multiplayer so everyone start equally. That is sad that there isn't a difficulty level like most of the games :(
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Darnavir

Serf

Posts: 9

Joined: 26 Dec 2019, 21:43

Post 07 Apr 2020, 13:17

Re: Campaign difficulty riddiculous

In pretty much any RTS campaign, you are both outnumbered and outstupided by the AI. You are expected to capitalize on AI's stupidity.
Some campaigns are harder than others. Original TSK shouldn't be too bad. Afaik, there should be no attacks you cannot stop with starting troops in 1st hour. Getting a town that can feed itself and produce soldiers in that time should be quite easy, if you know what you should do.
If you aren't sure what to do, assuming playing remake:
Don't deliver stones, coal and corn to storehouses. Stop storing things you use in a production chain - the only things that always should be stored are food, pigs and skins (if a swine farm has 5 of either, it stops producing). Store timber until your wood weapon production is up/you have built all you want to build.
Make 4 or 5 quarries, at least 2 fully operating sawmills (4+ woodcutters), 20 laborers, get food and gold production up before running out.
Farms and vineyards need some time before they start producing. Build woodcutters close to trees, otherwise they too take a while before they start producing (TSK mission 14 is bad in that regard - first enemy attacks are rather bad and there are no trees around - make many woodcutters asap, you can't wait too long for wood)
Make related buildings close to each other - stables and swine farms close to farms etc. Minimize carrying distances - high input+low output buildings close to their input and vice versa. Don't worry too much about optimal building placement and laborers walking around - optimizing every step isn't needed in original campaigns, just try to get laborers working most of the time and building chains reasonably close. Don't store wares from production chains far from storehouses (except pigs and skins) - bakeries and butcheries should be close to inns AND storehouses.
Make bread - in singleplayer, you need to feed army and additional serfs for feeding army. 2 (or 3 for a big city) bakeries should be enough.
If you can get food, gold and weapon production up at around 1 hour mark, it should be good enough.
If you notice a building blocking something or causing a major traffic jam, demolish it and build it elsewhere.
You should be able to make more soldiers than you lose to attacks and grow your army - make sure your food production and serf population can keep up. In singleplayer, you want to keep (and feed) your soldiers. Don't bother with attacking until you have a sufficiently big army. In fights, try to outnumber your enemy - this is mostly about soldiers fighting at once. If enemy soldiers are all around the place and yours are concentrated in one place, you can win with smaller total numbers.

This is far from perfect, but should be good enough for start. If you can do that, you should be able to complete at least TSK building missions by actually building a town and making an army. If you can't get any reasonable production up in 60 minutes, you won't stand a chance in multiplayer too (like 60+ soldiers and a decent production at minute 90; at minute 60 for "good" players).
Also keep in mind that some maps (and campaigns) are meant to be challenging for experienced players. In TSK campaign, there are 2 troublesome missions I remember: 8 and 14. In 8, you need to survive the 1st attack - build school and watchtowers (nothing in between). 14 has rather early (and strong) attacks and you don't have quite enough wood for a comfortable start.

When it comes to multiplayer, this sums it pretty well: https://www.nerfnow.com/comic/513
It will NOT be easier than campaigns and you will have to know how to optimally build and fight to succeed.
Btw, there are plans to have difficulty levels in future remake versions, but last time I saw them they were very wip (a while ago); there's nothing in stable r6720 or in original TSK and TPR.
Also, what cmowla does is pretty much pushing AI abuse to the limits, and it is a complete overkill for any remotely reasonable map/mission. This is beyond merely playing, this is the art of absolute optimization by any means available.
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Al Collins

Laborer

Posts: 10

Joined: 05 Aug 2019, 04:18

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Post 22 Apr 2020, 01:13

Re: Campaign difficulty riddiculous

Hello!
Great that you posted this. I just posted a suggestion that the newer versions incorporate a difficulty setting!! It would make the game playable for all persons.

Like yourself, there are SO MANY CHAPTERS/SCENARIOS that I have -0- chance at, well the game ceases to be fun! And I truly enjoy this game, but I simply MUST have a shot at victory, or it is -0- fun! And with the scenarios having missions with NO building/warehouse, I cannot get past them. There are MANY missions in version 6720 I have NEVER SEEN, simply because I cannot get to them! I cannot get past TPR 5 and TSK 6. I have no clue what lies beyond!
If I had paid a bunch of money for this game I would be extremely p.o.'ed !! But that is NOT why this is here... we need to work with each other to make a better game. I mean, it is great already & the work Mr. KROM and others have put in to it is one of the most selfless, generous acts I have seen in AGES! In this time of the Corona virus, everyone hating each other over politics, too many laws, etc. it really gives me HOPE that there are some outstanding people in the human race.... yes YOU MR. KROM! AND YOUR co-workers!


I even listed a couple games that have difficulty settings, as they go about it in different ways.

Al
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Darnavir

Serf

Posts: 9

Joined: 26 Dec 2019, 21:43

Post 22 Apr 2020, 11:25

Re: Campaign difficulty riddiculous

The problem there is how remake changed balance. Overall, building is faster, melee units are stronger and kill each other faster, ranged units are far less effective. This alone makes fighting missions harder. Whereas before all that mattered was making sure you shoot the enemy and aren't being shot back, now the significantly higher numbers of melee units can just slaughter you. On top of that, AI archers actually shoot you and don't just wander around when leaving their positions. Understanding and abusing AI behavior is needed to a greater extent. IMO, some of the fighting missions in r6720 are way harder than they should be (at least when compared to TSK balance). In remake, building missions are overall easier (20 laborers simply didn't work in TSK and TPR) but fights with starting army are harder (this includes all fighting missions).
Difficulty settings are definitely a good thing, but this isn't a simple difficulty problem, this is more of a balance problem. Combat missions are harder than building missions. Training 20 laborers and keeping them working is generally enough to win building missions, combat missions require a lot more skill and sometimes luck. The same fight with very similar starting conditions can have very different outcomes - this can matter a lot for casual players. The only way to win is to locally outnumber your enemy (having more soldiers fighting at once). Also, combat mission usually require the player to act fast and really benefit from high APM, building mission can (usually) be played at a slow pace. Many fights with starting troops have this problem - this can be annoying when other mission just let you build up, plan and manage soldiers in advance.

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