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Map Commission

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dicsoupcan

Moorbach's Guard

Posts: 1314

Joined: 12 Feb 2012, 21:36

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Post 22 Aug 2013, 19:46

Re: Map Commission

i have no idea, as far as i know there has not been played on it much and the gameplay actually did not seem interesting to me too. But there are maps that are not being played first, and later it is, for example cursed ravine. people just love to have a map with good gameplay over a map that looks nice with horrible gameplay. and offcrouse maps will become played less, new maps are being released and gameplay on the same map eveyr time get's old at some point. then we might trhow every old map out of a new release and include newly made maps.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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woloszek

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Sword Fighter

Posts: 394

Joined: 23 Apr 2012, 19:50

Location: Poland

Post 22 Aug 2013, 19:55

Re: Map Commission

cursed ravine. people just love to have a map with good gameplay over a map that looks nice with horrible gameplay
For new players this map is great. They do not do enough military as pro players. For those who love the long game, this map is ideal. We see this in statistics. You wrote yourself that you can create a tutorial. :mrgreen:
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Skypper

Knight

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Joined: 28 Jun 2013, 09:37

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Location: Dutch :D

Post 22 Aug 2013, 20:50

Re: Map Commission

i didn't read the whole topic, sorry guys.

i think it is good if some maps are removed or improved from the remake, because there are some very ugly maps, and very out of balanced.
but i don't think we really need a commission, if we just remove the worste maps it is a huge progress
Greets Skypper (Totally Insane)

- Beginning map maker -
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The Duke

Woodcutter

Posts: 17

Joined: 11 Jul 2013, 08:48

KaM Skill Level: Average

Post 23 Aug 2013, 06:42

Re: Map Commission

it would be nice to get at least feedback on your maps, which is really annoying if it gets ignored after you worked 2 days on it

kugh 'MyMap' kugh
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Skypper

Knight

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Location: Dutch :D

Post 23 Aug 2013, 06:47

Re: Map Commission

it would be nice to get at least feedback on your maps, which is really annoying if it gets ignored after you worked 2 days on it

kugh 'MyMap' kugh
i have downloaded your map, when it was released ;)
but we don't need a feedback team i think
Greets Skypper (Totally Insane)

- Beginning map maker -
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The Duke

Woodcutter

Posts: 17

Joined: 11 Jul 2013, 08:48

KaM Skill Level: Average

Post 23 Aug 2013, 06:58

Re: Map Commission

it would be nice to get at least feedback on your maps, which is really annoying if it gets ignored after you worked 2 days on it

kugh 'MyMap' kugh
i have downloaded your map, when it was released ;)
but we don't need a feedback team i think
thnx for downloading^^



I see this committee as a kind of prejudging for krom and lewin to decrease their work and to point new mappers at their mistakes.
they will probably be looking at:
- bad tyles (as said before)
- fairness of position
- fairness of resources
- things that influence the gameplay in a bad way
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WollongongWolf

Lance Carrier

Posts: 65

Joined: 09 Jun 2013, 19:26

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Post 23 Aug 2013, 08:39

Re: Map Commission

i think it is good if some maps are removed or improved from the remake, because there are some very ugly maps, and very out of balanced.
but i don't think we really need a commission, if we just remove the worste maps it is a huge progress
Underlined I completely agree with, the other, well, isn't that what the commission is for?

For me, at the moment, mainly in multiplayer there are dozens of maps. It would be nice to have a commission looking after those maps, perhaps change some stuff (with authors permission, or the author should do it), like removing some troops on some maps (like battle for coal), balancing maps or place maps that have become terrible (like lake Wololo (though I love the name =D)) in an archive, and perhaps rate other maps to seperate excellent maps from good maps (and find some way to implement that in remake :P).
As they would be busy with maps (that is also the incoming new maps), perhaps they can make some further subdivisions in map types (like divide build maps into pt (perhaps pt60 to encourage playing with 60pt) and no pt) (though now I'm getting too offtopic perhaps)
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woloszek

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Sword Fighter

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Joined: 23 Apr 2012, 19:50

Location: Poland

Post 23 Aug 2013, 09:02

Re: Map Commission

Many people make mistakes in the maps, and then thinking to myself, "uhhh, and so no one will notice, I do not want to fix this, I dont care." In fact, it is how these people are thinking. Many bad tiles and other errors (such as the appearance of carbon) are maps that we see in the remake. Establishment of the committee, would make it more seriously taken the mappers for mapping - especially closely.

Of course guide that could be made​​, would facilitate the case, but not quite. What about the fact that to the mapper would give a link to the guide, if he still has left a lot of mistakes (as it is now); Krom and Lewin do not have enough time to thoroughly check the maps. I think most people dont want to be a member in committee - because they dont want to check other people's maps. Shame, because the maps do not occur every day, but rarely. :wink:
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The Dark Lord

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King Karolus Servant

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Location: In his dark thunderstormy castle

Post 24 Aug 2013, 14:44

Re: Map Commission

Well well well...
I think we can all agree that, currently, the Remake has too many maps. Lots of them are ugly and can be deleted. Some maps were indeed deleted in the past, but in my opinion that was not enough.
This idea might help Lewin and Krom. Why did I emphasize 'help'? Because the final decision was, is and always will be theirs to make. So if the so called committee makes a bad mistake (removing a nice map, not adding a nice map to the Remake), then they can just say 'NO!' and nothing happens. In fact, since nobody has access to 'the source', we can't remove or add maps on our own anyway.
What Dicsoupcan said about personal taste is a minor issue in my opinion; I think we all have our own opinions, but the general aspect of a 'nice-looking' map is more or less the same for everyone. A few mushrooms on a weird place would not hurt if the rest of the map looks good.
I think this idea is not so bad; the least we can do is gather opinions of many map makers and form one structured, argumented analysis on maps and present it as advice to Lewin and Krom.
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thunder

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Moorbach's Guard

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Joined: 15 Apr 2012, 12:11

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Location: In the Market

Post 24 Aug 2013, 15:35

Re: Map Commission

Hi!

This comittie thing is good idea. But how would you like to manage it?
If i upload here a map, then discuss about it, and after?- I will repair and upload again?...

I think it could be good as MM project but a little another way. For example XX start to edit the map the whole part and upload it. And the YY download it and edit also a little, and after upload back. Next time XX or ZZ download, edit and upload again. After XX can edit again a little... Dont count which part to edit, the next mapmaker will repair if see something wrong or etc... (this is nearly same how the Remake is programable? :S)




I think to nobody can find or can make perfect map...
All maps has some defects, still the best maps also. We all know it. And there are the map topics where always post the critics;)




I disagree with deleting maps from remake. Maybe the maps should be changeable at the RC installing.(you could select which parts be installed)
There should be 3-4 categories.
-The most popular maps
-Hard maps
-Easy maps
-The ugliest
-original maps
-remade maps
bla bla bla
-
.
.
.
Or another possibiity: the lobbies connecting to a website where always the latest maps are there where everybody can, could upload his/her new maps/if i saw well somewhere it is in a topic/...etc

I think we can all agree that, currently, the Remake has too many maps.
Sorry but i disagree.
Lots of them are ugly and can be deleted
Most of ugly. But i think to all mistakes are posted in the map topics. so every mapmaker can repair his mapos. And many maps fitted and repaired or balanced, but not added.
I think for example if we start to commiting an original map, for example Across the desert, or Boarder River8P(until the reseting of the game counter of the maps,BR8P wasnt in the Top100), then the remade map won't be added. This two maps has tons of bad tiles/and unbalanced things also?/. But what will happen if the Community make committing? The maps will be nearly perfect, but i dont think will be added to the basic maps. If i see well there is a clan who always still play AtD fix0.4 and this isnt added version.
So i think the best if all players find his our way to refresh his map archive.
Anyway many maps looks out really good, but I've still not play on it and i cant tell you why?:S


Many bad tiles and other errors
i always would like to connect 3 other kind of tilesXD i always try to hide them with elevations;)

And i think to if the best players say this and this maps are unplayable, then not always should to beilive that, because those players not always playing other rules, or dont like other rules. For example long PT, shorter PT, faster gamespeed, only leather game, only iron game...etc.
So i like if the map list is enough long.
Everybody has a playing style, and everybody can find his "homeland";)
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woloszek

User avatar

Sword Fighter

Posts: 394

Joined: 23 Apr 2012, 19:50

Location: Poland

Post 24 Aug 2013, 15:51

Re: Map Commission

Well well well...
I think we can all agree that, currently, the Remake has too many maps. Lots of them are ugly and can be deleted. Some maps were indeed deleted in the past, but in my opinion that was not enough.
This idea might help Lewin and Krom. Why did I emphasize 'help'? Because the final decision was, is and always will be theirs to make. So if the so called committee makes a bad mistake (removing a nice map, not adding a nice map to the Remake), then they can just say 'NO!' and nothing happens. In fact, since nobody has access to 'the source', we can't remove or add maps on our own anyway.
What Dicsoupcan said about personal taste is a minor issue in my opinion; I think we all have our own opinions, but the general aspect of a 'nice-looking' map is more or less the same for everyone. A few mushrooms on a weird place would not hurt if the rest of the map looks good.
I think this idea is not so bad; the least we can do is gather opinions of many map makers and form one structured, argumented analysis on maps and present it as advice to Lewin and Krom.
I agree with you TDL. When I wrote this topic, I did not want to reduce the role of Krom and Lewin. I mean, to help them. I do not advocate the removal of maps that already exist in the remake, but everything is debatable. I think that every good mapper knows what mistakes not to make - and these errors should be corrected. What now often writes Lewin when he sees a beginner mapper map? He advises him to see the map of good mappers, such as TDL, etc.. Then, once again mapper sends "improved" map to Lewin, Lewin believes that everything has been fixed .. but only during the game you can see that it is not. Now Lewin/Krom could return mapper to that committee, and then (in a decision Krom / Lewin) put a good map to remake. The tasks of the committee I can change, but we need to know the opinion of Lewin and Krom, and generally come to some agreement. :wink:
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woloszek

User avatar

Sword Fighter

Posts: 394

Joined: 23 Apr 2012, 19:50

Location: Poland

Post 24 Aug 2013, 20:36

Re: Map Commission

This comittie thing is good idea. But how would you like to manage it?
If i upload here a map, then discuss about it, and after?- I will repair and upload again?...

I think it could be good as MM project but a little another way. For example XX start to edit the map the whole part and upload it. And the YY download it and edit also a little, and after upload back. Next time XX or ZZ download, edit and upload again. After XX can edit again a little... Dont count which part to edit, the next mapmaker will repair if see something wrong or etc... (this is nearly same how the Remake is programable? :S)
lol? Do you write seriously? How do you imagine that?
First, who will want to improve your map (from someone) every time?
Second: It would take a very long time and would change the style, the idea of a mapper,
and third: the new mapper should learn from own mistakes, that in the future they did not commit. While the members of the committee would make (almost) all the work for the mapper, his mind would be this - I do not have to do precise map, because they will improve for me ...my map....
Anyway many maps looks out really good, but I've still not play on it and i cant tell you why?:S
Why? Please tell me :mrgreen: :wink:
i always would like to connect 3 other kind of tilesXD i always try to hide them with elevations;)
[
me too :|
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Krom

User avatar

Knights Province Developer

Posts: 3280

Joined: 09 May 2006, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Location: Russia

Post 05 Sep 2013, 06:40

Re: Map Commission

Every map is a work of art. How often do you see paintings by (in)famous artists "updated" to suit picture galleries? xD
IMHO the only sane idea would be to allow voting on maps and making their rating from votes (e.g. 1-5 stars)
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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pawel95

Castle Guard Swordsman

Posts: 1912

Joined: 03 Oct 2008, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Location: "Pawel95" on Youtube.com

Post 05 Sep 2013, 10:52

Re: Map Commission

Every map is a work of art. How often do you see paintings by (in)famous artists "updated" to suit picture galleries? xD
IMHO the only sane idea would be to allow voting on maps and making their rating from votes (e.g. 1-5 stars)
Thats true, that would be the only good idea, because ""pro"" players would vote to delete an "ugly map" but for beginners it´s just the easiest and funniest map ever(even with bad terrain and mountains).
So there is no fair way to hear just at some opitions from some few members of this forum :$
Well what could be also used is the statistic site "How many games were played on which map", but I know that these numbers aren´t often good, because some few mapmakers just start their map with x3 speed "to test" sth just to get on a higher position on the rating.

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