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Custom Maps vs. Exsisting maps

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ironsceptre

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Post 17 Jan 2008, 15:00

Custom Maps vs. Exsisting maps

I have absolutely no luck using custom made maps using any editor. They don't seem to function properly. Fog of war(which I hate) doesn't clear correctly or serf and laborers walking over piles of stone, or personell not going to thier buildings. Krom's editor is easy to use but demonstrates the above charateristics along with not being able to save after opening an existing map.
I have been able to use exsisting maps and alter them using Qage's editor which works nice but a little cumbersome in height adjustments. Has anybody used a terrain/map editor other than Qage's and had success?
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The Dark Lord

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King Karolus Servant

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Post 17 Jan 2008, 15:17

Well, it's just what you call ''success''... But yeah, I had. Krom's editor works very well. You have to save it as a project, then you are able to load it (as a project).
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Lewin

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KaM Remake Developer

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Post 17 Jan 2008, 23:44

Hi,
I have noticed that all the missions you upload to my site are modified versions of the original maps, and, no offense, they are very poorly done.
Modifying maps is difficult and people would really rather play a new map.
The latest version (0.3e) of Kroms map editor is very easy to make new maps with. Start a new map the if you use the "terrain" tab then the edging will be done for you automatically, making it much easier. But remember, save the maps as a pro file also, other wise you won't be able to edit them again!
I was going to email you about this but I might as well say it here. I have decided to fix the maps you uploaded for you (make all the edging on mountains look right) before putting them on the site. Is this ok with you? All I will change are the edging, not anything else. Also, I would rather it if the missions you make were an original map, as I am still undecided as to weather I should allow modifications on the originals.
Keep using the site everyone!
Lewin.
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ironsceptre

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Post 18 Jan 2008, 04:52

by all means

i certainly have no problem with you fixing the maps...its tedious work and I'm a bit lazy but about using Kroms editor , it might make edges nice but it has issues. For one thing serfs and laborers and troops walk right through mountains and piles of stone and they don't clear the fog of war only buildings do. And yes I put the red X on every mountain square and stonepile square (pain in the a$$). There seems to be 2 levels of fog of war...the troops clear some of it but everything is still black until a building or road is built. If there is something else that I need to do to fix this maybe it should have been in some kind of help file, the one with the program is 99% useless unless all I wanted to build is bridges. What are objects 254 and 255? Where does it say what they are? Maybe its my computer that doesn't run it right. I only have TSK, maybe it doesn't have the resources (program file resources) to run the editor properly, I don't know. Until a solution is found for these issues I will continue to use existing maps.
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The Dark Lord

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King Karolus Servant

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Post 18 Jan 2008, 14:20

Re: by all means

ironsceptre wrote:For one thing serfs and laborers and troops walk right through mountains and piles of stone


That is only possible on the left and upper side of the map. But I don't think this is a problem if you modify a map?

ironsceptre wrote:and they don't clear the fog of war only buildings do. And yes I put the red X on every mountain square and stonepile square (pain in the a$$). There seems to be 2 levels of fog of war...the troops clear some of it but everything is still black until a building or road is built.


I know what you mean. But in KaM there is no fog of war. This is caused by a bug. I don't know how to fix it either. I had the same when I made a mission for my campaign. I can't remember how I cleared it away, but I think it has something to do with the position of the soldiers, or with the map.
Putting red crosses on the mountains shouldn't be necessairy!
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ironsceptre

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Post 18 Jan 2008, 15:30

No its not a problem when modifing an existing map but on new maps its hidious. I guess its a choice between form and function. Personelly I would rather have something that worked correctly regardless how it looked opposed to having something new and beutiful but acted querky. So I guess if I choose to make any more missions it will be with altered existing maps until such time as these issues can be addressed.
To Lewin: I will try to be more attentive to asthetics but I don't have the artistic skills nor the patience. You can either fix them or not fix them, post them or not post them, your choice.
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Lewin

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Post 19 Jan 2008, 02:57

Hi,
The "Fake Fog of War" bug is caused by a problem in the mission file, not the map. Kroms map editor has nothing to do with these bugs. Also, if you have the Fog of war then units will walk over mountains and all sorts of strange things, once again, not Krom's editors fault.
The main thing that causes the fog of war is if you have a building, the place where it is must be explored. If you just place a building somewhere then it will fail.
You must put a
!CLEAR_UP <X> <Y> 15
on every building. I think there are other ways to cause the bug but none that I have found.
The only problem in Krom's map editor that I have seen is a problem with the top row. At some places troops will sometimes walk over mountains on the very top row. (just the top row, no others) However, this is not a big problem as you rarely notice it. I have notified Krom about this problem and he say he will try to fix it.
You shouldn't have a problem because you use TSK, it works anyway. I think I know what you mean about 254 and 255, these are unused terrain tiles, they might have put something there in a later version.
I think that is a solution for all of your problems in Krom's editor. If it isn't please tell me.
Remember, a lot of problems like fog of war are caused by bugs in the mission. As far as I can see there are no real bugs in the map files krom's editor makes. If you still have a problem with Kroms map editor please reply, I would like to discuss it.

About modified maps and my missions page:
I am not going to fix all your maps for you. I will fix the tutorial remake, (as I think mining the stone to find the enemy is clever) and The Gantlet, as it is already on the site so I can't really remove it, I will fix it.
However, your multiplayer mission 3 foes is almost exactly the same as three continents so I won't post it.
You can still upload missions like that but I probably won't accept them unless the edges are ok and they are a bit more unique.
Lewin.
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The Dark Lord

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King Karolus Servant

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Post 19 Jan 2008, 06:48

lewin wrote:The "Fake Fog of War" bug is caused by a problem in the mission file, not the map. Kroms map editor has nothing to do with these bugs. Also, if you have the Fog of war then units will walk over mountains and all sorts of strange things, once again, not Krom's editors fault.


I know, it seems strange, but I doubt it. When I had this bug, I fixed it without changing anything in the script. It just worked fine later (or I had changed something of the enemy) (if I remember it well... If I do not, you're right of course :wink: ).
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ironsceptre

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Post 19 Jan 2008, 21:45

Now see ya got me on that one because I am using the same mission script that workes perfectly with "3 Foes" on a custom map and I get taht fake fog, serfs running all over rocks, and a whole forest of trees being cut down simultainously (I had to laugh). So I'm not totally convenced of your diagnoses of the editor. I will do some additional testig especially with the CLEAR_UP. Thanks for the info.
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Thunderwolf

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Post 24 Jan 2008, 08:56

and a whole forest of trees being cut down simultainously (I had to laugh).


you used the wrong trees???

make either a map which is fully surrounded by mountains or no mountains at all on the side.
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Lewin

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KaM Remake Developer

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Post 06 Feb 2008, 01:34

How's it going?

Hey ironseptre!
Have you managed to make a mission yet? Are you still having problems? Please tell me whats going on with you.
Lewin.
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ironsceptre

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Post 06 Feb 2008, 12:13

No, I'm sorry life has plum got in the way. Between my company being sold and remoddling the house I just havn't had time to mess with it. Someday though.

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