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Twin Peaks - MP build 8 players

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Islar

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Post 11 Feb 2014, 20:18

Twin Peaks - MP build 8 players

Update 14/10/2014

Hey, I just finished a map for multiplayer. There are 8 locations where location 1, 2, 5 and 6 can make iron weapons and 2 and 6 cannot make towers or fish.
I hope you like it and i really want to hear your opinion.
Here some screenshots. :D
Twin Peak v4.0 Top.gif

Twin Peak v4.0 Bottom.gif



Changes:


v1.0: The stone by loc 3 is moved and some other changes because of it. (see picture)
Twin Peak loc3 v1.0.gif


V2.0: I made it less campy by removing the mountians for grassy or snowy terrain. I made sure that you can walk there. I also changed locations 8 forest. (see picture 1)
........I made it easier for location 1 to get to the 100 fish (see picture 2)
........I made location 4 a little bigger and changed its forest. (see picture 3)
Twin peak v2.0 1.gif

Twin peak v2.0 2.gif

Twin peak v2.0 3.gif


V3.0: Changes in (forest of) locations and the snowy battlefield.
V4.0: Changes in all locations and battlefield with the major one's shown in the pictures.
........New pictures replace the first two pictures in this post.
........I changed the locations 3 and 4 and their near area a bit for more room to build enough farms and woodcutters. I hope this works.
........I changed the locations 5 and 6 to give loc 6 more room and i maked loc 5 smaller so i could use the wasted area of loc 5.
........I changed the forest areas of all locations to have an (+/-) equal amount of trees. All locations and their surrounding areas have about 125 trees.
........I changed the snowy area to have more objects. I hope it is not so bland anymore.
Twin Peak v4.0 Location 3.gif

Twin Peak v4.0 Location 4.gif

Twin Peak v4.0 Location 5.gif

Twin Peak v4.0 Location 6.gif

Twin Peak v4.0 Snowy Area.gif



Download
Twin Peaks v4.0.zip
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Last edited by Islar on 14 Oct 2014, 21:29, edited 6 times in total.
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Ben

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Post 11 Feb 2014, 21:07

Re: Twin Peaks - MP build 8 players

I've talked with sado about this map, and we both agree that it has huge potential...even on Teamspeak :) It needs some work, but I'll write more about that later; after I've had more time to analyze it. ;)
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sado1

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Post 11 Feb 2014, 21:13

Re: Twin Peaks - MP build 8 players

Took a quick look at the map. Seems to me that this map has great gameplay potential. There are some problems with it now, which have to be fixed, but I totally love the layout of the locs, and for some reason I think this might become the next standard TS map. Ben will probably make a more detailed post on what needs to be fixed later, so I'll just mention the thing that makes the map unplayable: loc 3's stone is undefendable. As for the looks, I dislike the repetitiveness of the mountains, but at least they are not looking bad. Overall, looks are ok.
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woloszek

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Post 12 Feb 2014, 12:20

Re: Twin Peaks - MP build 8 players

nice :)
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Islar

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Post 13 Feb 2014, 16:35

Re: Twin Peaks - MP build 8 players

sado1 wrote:...Ben will probably make a more detailed post on what needs to be fixed later, so I'll just mention the thing that makes the map unplayable: loc 3's stone is undefendable...


I have changed the problem for loc 3. You can see the changes in a picture in the first post.
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Ben

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Post 13 Feb 2014, 16:52

Re: Twin Peaks - MP build 8 players

Very good! Expect a detailed post from me tomorrow ;)
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pawel95

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Post 13 Feb 2014, 17:01

Re: Twin Peaks - MP build 8 players

Islar have you the new nightly version? Would be cool if you have time thjs weekend and you could test wizh some of us, your nice looking map there :D
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Ben

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Post 14 Feb 2014, 16:07

Re: Twin Peaks - MP build 8 players

Alright, Islar, here it comes ;)

You've made several maps so far. They've been poorly received, I know how it feels. I've made many maps for the Remake, and just now started getting some reception. However, I believe that you have finally made your "big break" and I'll do my best to help make this map played! :)

Overall, the looks are very pleasing! I will say very little on aesthetics, because you have found a personal style that contains its own personal beauty. You've also chosen a nice name. Simple but quite accurate.

I tried finding significant problems with your "mirror" but you really have done a fine job. It looks like you mostly gave up on mirroring 2/6, but the locations are still quite comparable in playability. 1/5 are very good in being mirrored. Without playing, I can't see any differences except that location 5 does not really have access to the 100 fish, whereas five can reach it very easily. Maybe you can bring a river down so player one can catch the fish?

The leather locations are the problems. They are not comparable and look very enjoyable to build on. To give you an idea, a leather base needs at least 9-10 farms and 10 woodcutters in order to make a nice army. Some locations just don't have room for it. Location 8 looks unplayable. He has one huge annoying forest in his only available farmland. I think you should split that forest into two pieces anyway. Having just one big forest is not interesting. I think that you intended location 4 to be the mirror of 8, but they really aren't. 4 has way fewer trees and much easier farmland.

Now, the biggest problem in this map is camping. With all players snuggled together, there is little reason to control the center of the map. I believe that there are a number of ways to help alleviate this problem:


1) These mountains: Image
Really need to be removed. They make it very hard to assault. As of right now, armies will not be able to attack with their ranged and melee will easily be picked off as they squeeze through the tight spots between mountains. The mountains circled in blue only need to be removed if you make another passage through the part of the river that is near the waterfall. When I say "remove" I mean make smaller or move them away from their current position. Basically, give attacking armies room to move around.

2) Force the players to build near their borders. This will make camping inefficient because players will be hurting their economy with armies standing around. It is also very hard to actually defend like this once the attack begins since ranged units won't have room to organize. Further, attacking armies can pick of buildings and citizens with archers. You have already done this quite a bit with the bottom locations, but the top has a large buffer between their cities and their boarder. Make them build near that river somehow. Move coal/farms/trees or similar things like this to make it happen.

3) This is just a thought, and will be a huge change, but maybe you could cut locations 1/5 off completely from their respective teams? This will make it very important to control the center of the map as that will prevent 1/5 from being crushed by the enemy, respectively. If you do this, I recommend giving 1/5 a boost, such as having one more laborer and serf than the other players and having +10 timber and stone. That's all a bit drastic, but maybe you could instead make the passage that connects them as narrow as possible. This will make it very hard, but still possible to send support through the mountains.

And that's about it I think. In summary:

1) Make locations 3/7 and 4/8 more balanced and more playable.
2) Stop camping!
3) Remove those mountains I circled.
4) I didn't mention it, but it is almost a standard to have +1 serf over builders. i think you should delete a builder so you start with 6 serfs and 5 labourers.

Good luck Islar!
#thunderposting #greentornado
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Islar

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Post 17 Feb 2014, 14:04

Re: Twin Peaks - MP build 8 players

Ben wrote:...
1) Make locations 3/7 and 4/8 more balanced and more playable.
2) Stop camping!
3) Remove those mountains I circled.
4) I didn't mention it, but it is almost a standard to have +1 serf over builders. i think you should delete a builder so you start with 6 serfs and 5 labourers.
...


Thank you for the great feedback. I tried to do this and i hope this will make a big change in how to play this map. :D
Changes in the first post.
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Ben

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Post 19 Feb 2014, 07:17

Re: Twin Peaks - MP build 8 players

The snowy fighting space looks pretty bland now. Elevate more, add more objects, and terrain if you wish. It really needs some flavor.

Actually, that bottom-left location is worse now imo, at least as far as looks. I like how you gave it more room, but the coast was nice there before, and I liked the forest before, too. Maybe just revert it to normal (except make more room elsewhere) and take some trees away from 8? ;) For that matter, I think you should make most forests a bit smaller. I (along with most expert TS players) think it is more interesting to have several small forests rather than one large one. See Golden Cliffs for examples.

Keep up the amazing work!
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Islar

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Post 20 Feb 2014, 15:57

Re: Twin Peaks - MP build 8 players

new update. see first post
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Mixons

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Post 21 Feb 2014, 15:21

Re: Twin Peaks - MP build 8 players

Hey, I think there is too much trees on this map, so it will be too easy. Also you checked if every loc(or both sides) have similiar number of trees(to make balance)? 6 builders and sefs is too many IMO, classic set-up is 3 builders and 4 serfs. I`m not expert in judging look of the map, but i dont really like your mountains. You should make different mountains, because now its pretty boring.
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sado1

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Post 12 Mar 2014, 13:40

Re: Twin Peaks - MP build 8 players

Loc 6 has no space for early woodcutter, it's impossible to maintain a good wood production there; while it's fine on the loc 2 (which is supposed to balance loc6). Consider adding some additional space for early woodcutter - maybe replace some of the coal on the top with grass?
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Leeuwgie

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Post 26 Mar 2014, 01:17

Re: Twin Peaks - MP build 8 players

Ben wrote:2) Stop camping!


I love that guy...

But now on topic, I see you spend a lot of time on this map, and not only because its max size. Well done :D First of all, I must say I dislike to play leather only and think that the distance to the resources are way too far from the storehouse (reminds me of Border Rivers where I had some ''interesting'' games in the past). But that's just my personal opinion. But now some additional feedback from me. Note that I don't give you a list of the many things you did well (like for instance coal placement (in terms of looks) on the map). I thought Islar rather wants to see things that could be improved :wink: so here are some screens:
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No matter what, always keep smiling ~ Bassie (from Bassie & Adriaan)
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sado1

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Post 29 Sep 2014, 12:27

Re: Twin Peaks - MP build 8 players

Hello. Islar, are you alive? The new Remake comes soon, and I really hoped to see your map getting fixed in time. Please read the posts above. Can you fix the gameplay related problems ASAP? I'd also love to see you follow some of To's advices and improve the looks a bit as well (they ain't bad though). This map isn't on the "added" list yet, but surely has a good chance if the gameplay issues are gone. Building seemed fun here, I hope you can make those fixes soon enough.
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