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Map Editor and Features

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gnbiskit

Serf

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Joined: 20 Dec 2014, 18:15

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 20 Dec 2014, 18:43

Map Editor and Features

I think this is the proper board to post this. (NOTE: this is not a "slam" about anything, just my thoughts and notes)

I have played KaM for many years on and off. I just LOVE that silly little game that both made me feel like a king while at the same time cursing the program for acting so darn... stupid at times. How many of us that played TSK and TPR and cursed at the screen because two serfs couldn't figure out how to get past each other, or - and my favorite - your army just keeps walking and walking because the banner carrier is the last guy in line, and the next thing you know your in combat because your army is stretched across the field. Or you run out of food because you built too many people before you had food production going. Or, and this I hated, your workers don't build anything because you forgot to connect that tower you placed before you built all the other buildings.

Soo much fun, yet sooo much frustration at the same time. It's a wonder I'm still sane. I emailed the designer (whom I forget the name and I'm too lazy to go look up my old emails) many many years ago and had a nice series of communications with him about these issues. He was very open and accepting, but there was never anything after TPR. I was sad.

Needless to say, I have great love of the remake, which I have dabbled with for years now, and I have nothing but admiration for those of you that have taken your own time and effort to create, rather, re-create this silly little game while fixing nearly all those goofy little bugs, and making some things work as they should have. Please accept my huge "Thank you!" for this.

(Ok, but what does all that have to do with this topic? Nothing, but I just wanted to say it anyway. heh)

Now...

I have searched extensively looking for information about the map editor with KaM Remake and have come across a lot of information, some of which was good, some not so good. Once you separate all the search results from the old editor and the built in editor, it becomes clear that the amount of information about the editor is incredibly small.

I have seen the videos made by several people, and I have read these forums for days now. But there is a significant lack of information about the editor and how it works, and more importantly, how to work it.

(on a side note, I write user manuals and "how to" documentation professionally, and do videos - so I'd be happy to open up a dialogue with you about creating one for you)

With the help of the videos and these forums, I have pretty much figured out how to use the map editor. However there is one very significant thing I just can't figure out how to do, nor can I find the answer anywhere.

So, all that build up above for this one little question: How do you remove AI start points?

I built a lovely 8 player map. Now I wanted to take the same map, and with some added rivers and bridges, make a 5 player map. I could not find a way to "remove" AI player start points I had added to the map. So, how in the heck do I do that? If it is possible that is. I'm sure I have not tried every key, or click, and I just may be missing it. But I also can't find the answer.

Thank you for your time.

Regards,
Biskit
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Ben

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Post 21 Dec 2014, 07:47

Re: Map Editor and Features

I enjoyed your story :) I hope you find this forum to be a welcome place.

As for your question, you cannot remove start points. Well, with an old script editor such as Lewin's 0.4 editor or older you can probably remove them by hand but that will probably cause a crash.

Exactly why do you want to remove it? As far as I can remember, they won't do any harm if you just ignore them.
#thunderposting #greentornado
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gnbiskit

Serf

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Joined: 20 Dec 2014, 18:15

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 21 Dec 2014, 08:03

Re: Map Editor and Features

Ben wrote:Exactly why do you want to remove it? As far as I can remember, they won't do any harm if you just ignore them.


Fair question. The answer is slightly more than just a simple answer, because I don't have all the facts.

I am assuming if you add player start points, then you can have up to that many players. I'll explain...

I built an 8 player map. That means up to 8 players can play at a time (assumption) but no more than 8. Therefore if I wanted to use the same map with just a few modifications (i.e. add some rivers or mountains or both) to make it a five player map, then, using the above assumption, up to 8 players can play the map that is now built for only 5 - since I can not remove a player start point.

Now, on another note, typically when you have some type of editor, such as a map editor, text editor, script editor, etc., anything you can do, you should be able to undo. The map editor, then, is simply missing the component to allow you to undo/delete player start points.

But don't get me wrong here, I am NOT bashing anyone for any kind of failure. I have nothing but respect for someone or group who, through their own passion about something decide to rebuil that something, from scratch even (well, almost), on their own time and not do it kind of monetary reward. The KaM Remake took Kam and made a great game 100x better.

So, as you have said Ben, I'm not missing the feature, it's just not there, correct? If so (I'd like to hear from the programmers on this) then I'll have to make a topic in the other area to request that feature be added.

Thank you for your reply. :)

Regards,
Biskit
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Tiank

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Knight

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Location: Poland

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 21 Dec 2014, 08:23

Re: Map Editor and Features

That's right, you can't remove starting point. You can do that with fog reveal circle, so it should be the same with starting point (an "x" option when you click on starting point).

However, you can try to use copy/paste function and copy the whole map, open a new one and paste the whole terrain into this new map. Then you can add as many players as you want, since it does not copy buildings, units or starting points :).
Without honour, victory is hollow.
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Krom

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Knights Province Developer

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KaM Skill Level: Fair

Post 21 Dec 2014, 08:44

Re: Map Editor and Features

As far as I recall, players without assets are removed upon save in KaM Remake Map Editor.

Another possible solution is to edit the DAT file script with one of the older tools that can decode it into text and remove sections for extra players and change the header so that max_players is right.
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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Ben

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Post 21 Dec 2014, 18:05

Re: Map Editor and Features

If you want to lower the max amount of players, you need to remove all units, buildings, etc. from that player. After that, you might have to save and reload your map. Upon reloading, the player will be gone.

Undo/redo is possible but only with terrain.
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The Dark Lord

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King Karolus Servant

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Location: In his dark thunderstormy castle

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Post 21 Dec 2014, 19:33

Re: Map Editor and Features

You should try what Ben wrote:
Ben wrote:If you want to lower the max amount of players, you need to remove all units, buildings, etc. from that player. After that, you might have to save and reload your map. Upon reloading, the player will be gone.

If that doesn't work, you could send me the .dat file and I'll remove the players for you manually. You could also join TeamSpeak and get King Harold's ScriptEditor that I once uploaded there and do it yourself. But I must be honest: I'm not sure if the editor is still there.
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Ben

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Post 21 Dec 2014, 19:56

Re: Map Editor and Features

Lewin's old editor (0.4) works just fine for that as well. I haven't seen Harold's editor in so long so I don't remember what it is like, but Lewins is very clean looking, as a find feature, color coding, etc.
#thunderposting #greentornado
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gnbiskit

Serf

Posts: 9

Joined: 20 Dec 2014, 18:15

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 21 Dec 2014, 20:43

Re: Map Editor and Features

Krom wrote:As far as I recall, players without assets are removed upon save in KaM Remake Map Editor.


That should be an easy work around. *EDIT* That did work for the map, but the start locations were still in the .dat file *EDIT*

I think I'll post in the other forum to request a feature be added to remove a start point. It's a small addition, and low priority, but I would think it's a valid option to add.

Krom wrote:Another possible solution is to edit the DAT file script with one of the older tools that can decode it into text and remove sections for extra players and change the header so that max_players is right.


Another good option I'll explore. Although I tried to use some of the other editors and couldn't get them to work (crashes or errors) but I'll continue to try different things.

Currently, I just rebuilt the map - since the XXL 8 player map was far too big for only 5 players. 172 worked much better.

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