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My First Map - enjoy?

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gnbiskit

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Joined: 20 Dec 2014, 18:15

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Post 23 Dec 2014, 11:43

My First Map - enjoy?

Although I am working on an 8 player map, it still needs lots of adjustments.

I have, however, finished a nice 5 player map. Plenty of build space. Good amount of resources, although you may wish to utilize the market.

However, I will say this: Player 5 start is the LEAST defensible. Player 3 start is the BEST defensible. There are some other ... tricks to the map as well.

While I haven't dabbled into scripts yet, there are 5 start points, so you can add AI players if you wish. They will build armies and towers to defend themselves, but they will not attack.

In future updates, I may have them build larger armies, and possibly attack.

Anyway, give it a whirl, and I am always open to suggestions and constructive criticism.


A Force of Five.rar
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sado1

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Post 23 Dec 2014, 12:04

Re: My First Map - enjoy?

Any chance for some screenshots? I'm on the phone for entire day so I cannot simply see it in KaM.
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gnbiskit

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Post 23 Dec 2014, 17:43

Re: My First Map - enjoy?

Sure! I made 4 you can view on my Steam screenshot library. I'd post them here, but they are all 1920 x 1080. heh

http://steamcommunity.com/id/revbiskit/screenshots/


Regards,
Biskit
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Ben

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Post 23 Dec 2014, 20:29

Re: My First Map - enjoy?

You can still post them here. The forum will shrink the image down to a "thumbnail" or whatever and you can then see the full image by clicking on it :)
#thunderposting #greentornado
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Michalpl

Sword Fighter

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Post 23 Dec 2014, 23:16

Re: My First Map - enjoy?

If it would be 4p it would be ok because the middle is worst place to be

Coal looks not right

Not matching trees with the ground
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gnbiskit

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Post 23 Dec 2014, 23:30

Re: My First Map - enjoy?

How does the coal not look right? Can you give me an example?

The trees, I did that way on purpose. If you notice, each area starts with it's own type of tree. Yes, your woodcutter will plant all the trees, but you start with only one type of tree in each start area. This was just to change things up a bit.

You can play it as 4 players if you want, just don't pick position 5 (of course, if you choose random well...)

Thank you for your feedback! I appreciate it. :)
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Michalpl

Sword Fighter

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Joined: 10 May 2014, 21:46

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Post 23 Dec 2014, 23:39

Re: My First Map - enjoy?

gnbiskit wrote:How does the coal not look right? Can you give me an example?

The trees, I did that way on purpose. If you notice, each area starts with it's own type of tree. Yes, your woodcutter will plant all the trees, but you start with only one type of tree in each start area. This was just to change things up a bit.

You can play it as 4 players if you want, just don't pick position 5 (of course, if you choose random well...)

Thank you for your feedback! I appreciate it. :)


Coal example

Also fix tiles for iron mountains AI can't reach some iron in loc 4th green player
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The Dark Lord

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Post 24 Dec 2014, 00:23

Re: My First Map - enjoy?

Actually that coal is wrong too, because most tiles are in the same direction.
But yeah, it should be more smooth.
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Michalpl

Sword Fighter

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Post 24 Dec 2014, 00:32

Re: My First Map - enjoy?

TDL yep i was just lazy to turn of random direction
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Ben

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Post 24 Dec 2014, 22:14

Re: My First Map - enjoy?

You were too lazy to turn off random direction but you had the drive to make a post on the forum with a screenshot?
If you ask me, you're just spamming topics with worthless content. If you are truly that lazy, then let someone else help him out, eh?
#thunderposting #greentornado
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dicsoupcan

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Post 24 Dec 2014, 23:24

Re: My First Map - enjoy?

well before i make any general tips i would recommend you watch this tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_3hadwfLLc and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVA1u0rkAJM . i would especially recommend the canbuild/canwalk part since i noticed you had a lot of tiles that you cannot build on, which in turn annoys players a lot. This tutorial also covers the coal field part with a lucky coincidence. if you got further questions i'll be happy to help you further :)
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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gnbiskit

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Post 25 Dec 2014, 00:05

Re: My First Map - enjoy?

discoupcan, I did watch those. Pretty good, and they helped a lot. As a new map designer, I'm sure there are a lot of these aesthetic issue with the map. The more I play it, the more issues I find. I write user manuals, "How To" guides, and do videos professionally. So I looked for and found those before I attempted to create a map.

I'm learning the intricacies of map making in KaM Remake through trial and error, and I do plan to make some How To documentation for it as well. I love the Remake, and will be providing the community with whatever I can to assist in any way I can as I feel the same passion about this silly fun exciting game as most everyone else that plays it. :)

With the coal, I see your point on how it would be more appealing, however, my goal was to have smaller coal areas with larger amounts of coal instead of more coal deposits.

As we all know, coal can be strip mined from the ground, which is the way KaM seems to do it, but it can also be mined from mountains. Like gold, which can be mined from strip mining or dug from deep within the Earth in mountains. These are the two stereotypes methods. But since KaM doesn't have coal in mountains (which would be VERY cool!) it has to be on the ground. I wanted large amounts of coal deposits, not large numbers of coal deposits, thus the odd looking coal areas.

However, I have taken your advice and have changed the way the coal appears and done some tapering on the edges for better aesthetics. The more I play this map with my buddy and solo, I find issues here and there and fix them as needed. So... please KEEP THE COMMENTS COMING!!! I love the feedback!!

Thank you!
Biskit
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Michalpl

Sword Fighter

Posts: 318

Joined: 10 May 2014, 21:46

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Post 25 Dec 2014, 17:29

Re: My First Map - enjoy?

Ben wrote:You were too lazy to turn off random direction but you had the drive to make a post on the forum with a screenshot?
If you ask me, you're just spamming topics with worthless content. If you are truly that lazy, then let someone else help him out, eh?


Yep of topic but i leave this community

Then i do better need to forget this game and community and do some more useless things.
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dicsoupcan

Moorbach's Guard

Posts: 1314

Joined: 12 Feb 2012, 21:36

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Post 25 Dec 2014, 18:59

Re: My First Map - enjoy?

gnbiskit wrote:discoupcan, I did watch those. Pretty good, and they helped a lot. As a new map designer, I'm sure there are a lot of these aesthetic issue with the map. The more I play it, the more issues I find. I write user manuals, "How To" guides, and do videos professionally. So I looked for and found those before I attempted to create a map.

I'm learning the intricacies of map making in KaM Remake through trial and error, and I do plan to make some How To documentation for it as well. I love the Remake, and will be providing the community with whatever I can to assist in any way I can as I feel the same passion about this silly fun exciting game as most everyone else that plays it. :)

With the coal, I see your point on how it would be more appealing, however, my goal was to have smaller coal areas with larger amounts of coal instead of more coal deposits.

As we all know, coal can be strip mined from the ground, which is the way KaM seems to do it, but it can also be mined from mountains. Like gold, which can be mined from strip mining or dug from deep within the Earth in mountains. These are the two stereotypes methods. But since KaM doesn't have coal in mountains (which would be VERY cool!) it has to be on the ground. I wanted large amounts of coal deposits, not large numbers of coal deposits, thus the odd looking coal areas.

However, I have taken your advice and have changed the way the coal appears and done some tapering on the edges for better aesthetics. The more I play this map with my buddy and solo, I find issues here and there and fix them as needed. So... please KEEP THE COMMENTS COMING!!! I love the feedback!!

Thank you!
Biskit


Well do not expect your first map to be a major hit, it never happened with any mapmaker so far :) and as far as i have seen many maps sharing similar gameplay from new mapmakers and i have not seen many people liking that sort of gameplay. it was also the reason one of the earliest maps existing in the remake since the start laken out becaus eno one plays it. and with that i mean the birdges offcourse. allow me to hand you an example: http://youtu.be/s2sG_rjrY4c?t=14m10s . although the middle part could act as a sort of arena, it will be near impossible to besiege a town which makes the tactic mass ranged backed by a little bit of melee the best defend and strategy possible.

But this gives me an idea so it could possibly work. how about instead of player 5 in the middle, you make something that people can capture? as in a king of the hill gamemode? i'm pretty sure a skilled scripter can whip up a script in 5 minutes for you. it stays you choice, i am just tossing up a ball here.

but considering the visual design i could give some extra feedback too.

first of all what i noticed when looking aorund a bit is that your riverflow is not consistent (i asusme you used magic water?)

let me give you an example:

KaM Remake 2014-12-25 19-55-15.jpg


as you can see the water on both sides of the bridges are flowing away form each other, while if you think about it when a water goes under a bridge it keeps flowing in the same direction. it should be an easy fix.

but the nxt one is the hardest thing of mapmaking imo: elevation.

KaM Remake 2014-12-25 19-58-02.jpg


the elevatoin near the iron mountain is very sharp and looks ugly, like the landscape is make out of knives. the big hill looms odd but is ok if your intention is to not make it passable terrain. the elevation on top of the river looks alright except for the weird deep black pits (it's the fog i know :D ) and you might want to elevate it slightly more near the riverbank, you can just use brush size 1 speed 3/4 for that.

Also if you watched my video you know i covered tile connections, those bridge tiles connect only to mud, so make sure you give the bridge a muddy ending :D

that's all i got for now. good luck and have fun sir!
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You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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gnbiskit

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Joined: 20 Dec 2014, 18:15

KaM Skill Level: Skilled

Post 27 Dec 2014, 04:28

Re: My First Map - enjoy?

dicsoupcan wrote:Well do not expect your first map to be a major hit, ..... one of the earliest maps existing in the remake since the start taken out because no one plays it.


Of course. I'm not map making for the intention of being the best. Just something I want to do for myself, but offer to others. If they like it, so be it, if not, no biggie. But maps come, and map go - with any game. There will always be some that people like the best, and some no one will play and those that were good, but have been replaced by other player favorites. Just part of the circle.

But I'm also not making maps that have to adhere to a certain set of ideals. For instance;
dicsoupcan wrote:first of all what i noticed when looking aorund a bit is that your riverflow is not consistent (i asusme you used magic water?)

I can make the majority of the water all flow the same direction using magic water. However, although magic water is great, I'm sure you are aware the water on the shadow blocks next to the bridge do not change with the use of magic water, that water stays flowing the same direction always. So it appears your water is flowing one way to the bridge, then opposite on the blocks next to it. Additionally, some of the shoreline blocks do not change with magic water as well. This, of course, is a restriction in the graphics of the blocks themselves - there is only one water shadow block and the water on that one only flows in one direction. This, of course makes the consistency of water flow direction of little value. However, I see your point that if the river were flowing all in one direction, it is more aesthetic, although lacks complete continuity due to the water shadow block and shore line block inconsistencies. And if these parts can be overlooked...

dicsoupcan wrote:the elevatoin near the iron mountain is very sharp and looks ugly, like the landscape is make out of knives. the big hill looms odd but is ok if your intention is to not make it passable terrain. the elevation on top of the river looks alright except for the weird deep black pits (it's the fog i know :D ) and you might want to elevate it slightly more near the riverbank,


That landscape is that way on purpose, yes, however has been slightly adjusted in other updates I've done that I have not posted about. Also, the bridge has been raised as well to make it look, well, raised. However, I will agree that a bridge may end with mud blocks, but I'm not so sure it has too. It may "look" better, to some, but, there is no set road there so there may be no bridge traffic to make it appear muddy. If the map was to be part of a campaign or even a single map adventure, I'd add packed mud and mud blocks as roads to each of the lands.

I most certainly DO appreciate all the feedback I have been given so far. In fact, I have removed the 5th player area, and added some roads and rubble to appear as if there was a town there at one point, the storyline something like.... the lands were once ruled by a mad king, however he was overthrown by his four barons, now many years later, they quarrel for a single ruler.

So I have made many changes, and spruced up the map some with more aesthetics and the like. But my goal is to make a map that is fun to play, over the fact that there is a square out of place somewhere. That said, I listen to and read ALL these comments, as I agree that I am not always right, but nor am I always wrong.

I'll try to post an updated map here as soon as I play test it a few times and check for issues and other stuff. But please keep those comments coming! I like to see such good quality feedback - since I can't think of everything, and you can't think of everything, but together, as a community, we can come up with great ideas.

Best Regards,
Biskit

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