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Conquest of Paradise 2p

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Florek

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Location: Poland

Post 13 Apr 2015, 18:46

Conquest of Paradise 2p

Recently, our expedition has sailed through the sea and disembarked on the coast of unknown lands. While exploring deeper into jungle, your scouts report that there are already other humans and-- even worse-- they don't seem friendly. Is it time to start a conquest of this newly discovered paradise?

Hi, today I'd like to present map that I started more than 1 year ago, abandoned that idea and decided to finish it right now after koczis12 found it on his HD (without whom it won't be possible as I threw my old PC with HD onboard through the window, so thanks!). :P

Map is kept in climate/style of my previous one which I found being very crappy from perspective of time (Welcome to the Jungle :P ) - that means a lot of deep jungles, some ancient fortifications and overally it's warm and wet. :D

The general idea was to create perfectly balanced and good-looking map only for 1-1 matchs, as in time of it's creation such a one didn't exist (and for my personal preferences this state of affairs is actual today :P). The resources are similar to those which you can find on classical maps like Across the Desert and Golden Cliffs. Distance to each resource on players locations are counted and is exact (balance) although locs aren't exactly mirrored - just very similar. ;)

I suggest PT 60, same as for previously mentioned ones. ;)

Starting wares: 60 stone, 50 timber, 60 gold, 60 wine, 35 bread, 15 sausage, 30 fish
Old building order! (school -> inn -> quarry etc)
Map size: 176x96
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Last edited by Florek on 16 Apr 2015, 23:20, edited 8 times in total.
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Conquest of Paradise - balanced 1v1 map in the spirit of maps like Golden Cliffs or Across the Desert
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sado1

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Post 14 Apr 2015, 10:00

Re: Conquest of Paradise 2p

Nobody seems to respond, which is a pity since the map is really good looking. I especially love the objects work, those palm tree areas are awesome. I expect people like TDL might not like the object spam though. I think the brushes could be made more interesting in the building space - which looks quite dull at the moment. But overall the is quite cool, can't wait to play the spiritual successor of Welcome to the Jungle ;)
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thunder

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Post 14 Apr 2015, 10:18

Re: Conquest of Paradise 2p

Such a nub map;P but the story is lovely (H)

Seriously, I've never thought koczis save "k..wa" quality maps also :lol:

Even more seriously :mrgreen: Nice job! Finally there is 1v1 map which has good ratios for fighting!
t
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Florek

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Post 14 Apr 2015, 10:54

Re: Conquest of Paradise 2p

Thanks for feedback guys. (H)

sado wrote:I expect people like TDL might not like the object spam though.

Yeah, it's all up to personal taste - I did best I can in the way I desired it to looks like, all issues relevant to idea are disputable. :P

sado wrote:I think the brushes could be made more interesting in the building space

I left it less spammed with objects and terrainwork on purpose - these are locations and on most maps the locs look like that, I think the reason is pretty obvious - locs will be covered with buildings anyway and second they better not distract player from building. :P Although I understand how strong this impression may be while looking at this map as fighting areas were heavily spammed and polished. :D

@Thunder - by noob for noobs of course! (6)

Please report if anyone see issues like bad tiles work or even had opportunity to play it - I'm curious about your impression. :D
powah gamin! - trusted source of best KaM Remake replays!
Conquest of Paradise - balanced 1v1 map in the spirit of maps like Golden Cliffs or Across the Desert
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Jeronimo

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Post 14 Apr 2015, 11:42

Re: Conquest of Paradise 2p

The fortress reminds me of mayan architecture.
The southern bridge achieved the illusion of depth.
In minimap looks like a grumpy ass face cartoon (starting locs are the eyes).

Overall it's a good map. Let's play some duels soon. :)
KaM Skill Level: Jeronimo
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Florek

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Post 14 Apr 2015, 17:11

Re: Conquest of Paradise 2p

Thanks Jero. :D

UPDATE! After test game I'm definitely more likely towards oldschool building order on this map and therefore now you have to build Inn after school but before quarry - like in the old good times. (H)
powah gamin! - trusted source of best KaM Remake replays!
Conquest of Paradise - balanced 1v1 map in the spirit of maps like Golden Cliffs or Across the Desert
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dicsoupcan

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Post 14 Apr 2015, 17:49

Re: Conquest of Paradise 2p

oh nice, i love old unlock order :)
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill
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Ben

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Post 14 Apr 2015, 19:40

Re: Conquest of Paradise 2p

Florek wrote:Thanks Jero. :D

UPDATE! After test game I'm definitely more likely towards oldschool building order on this map and therefore now you have to build Inn after school but before quarry - like in the old good times. (H)


- respect. Old build order does nothing for the game* and only slows it down ;)


*Nostalgia excluded
#thunderposting #greentornado
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Bludmaster

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Post 15 Apr 2015, 10:38

Re: Conquest of Paradise 2p

Ben wrote:- respect. Old build order does nothing for the game* and only slows it down ;)


*Nostalgia excluded


I dont agree at all ;)
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Ben

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Post 15 Apr 2015, 19:03

Re: Conquest of Paradise 2p

We're heading into off topic territory, but anyway...

I find it ironic, Bludmaster, that you complain of KaM gameplay being repetitious, "the same thing over and over again," and yet you support the old build order? With the old build order (and ~60 stone in storehouse), the first 12 minutes (perhaps longer) of every game is exactly the same. If it's the sake of "tradition" that you support the old build order then I can understand, but it does absolutely nothing positive for gameplay.
#thunderposting #greentornado
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Bludmaster

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Post 16 Apr 2015, 01:20

Re: Conquest of Paradise 2p

And thats biggest mistake. Maybe you have to follow build order but how you do it its big difference, and in past these small diferences made good and bad players . Nowadays you can do everything at any time, you have everything faster and small stuff like closing your inn, where put first roads(woodcutters) etc. dissapeared from game. For me KaM was about small tricks people did to be better than others. With new build order it almost doesnt matter what you do or in which order you do it at start of the game. Why? Because you dont need to pay attention to small details ...

PS.: If you say that with new build order people dont make, in first 20 minutes, the same stuff every game you are dead wrong. (School - rush woodcutter - rush sawmill) Every single game.
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Jeronimo

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Post 16 Apr 2015, 03:30

Re: Conquest of Paradise 2p

Maybe the "closed Inn" tip dissapeared... but in its place a lot more came in:
*When do I start building my Inn? How late can I postpone?
*Do I start with 2-3-4-5 quarries before building my 1st woodcutter? Old order is always 4, even 5 is mandatory.
*Have roads "ready" by when 1st sawmill is built so you have iron gold mine ASAP while going for 1st coal (the "10 mins" challenge).

There are details in every moment of basebuilding, such as:
*Placing blueprints to protect terrain from woodcutters.
*Using 1 wine field + 1 road to remove an object that doesn't allow a house.
*Multiple blueprints in a specific area to flatten terrain and allow a house.

I prefer as Ben, to accelerate the "basic resources beginning".
The real difference between 2 players skills comes out the sooner they are given all available houses (after sawmill).
Think in the Big Bang theory. An Explosion (of options), and how you expand (with efficency).
KaM Skill Level: Jeronimo
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Bludmaster

Bowman

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KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Post 16 Apr 2015, 06:23

Re: Conquest of Paradise 2p

Well since it was rly at night i missed main point of what i like about old build order and hate on new one. Its much bigger limit in building resources mainly wood. Since your 1. woodcutter cames much later in game while building speed is the same therefore you had to choose between buildings not just blindly build everything with no problem as its nowadays.

*Do I start with 2-3-4-5 quarries before building my 1st woodcutter? Old order is always 4, even 5 is mandatory. - WTF? Why in old is always 4 and now you can choose? Like woodcutter is availeable after building 4? ....
*Have roads "ready" by when 1st sawmill is built so you have iron gold mine ASAP while going for 1st coal - much more important in old one because everything is delayed
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thunder

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Post 16 Apr 2015, 07:38

Re: Conquest of Paradise 2p

Maybe should to move these post into a new topic...
The map makers still can decide which build order's used for the map.

Floro made a good decision!;)

Personaly I like the old one because there every mistake grow exponantialy in time. For example missing a road tile to the wodcutter or similar. waste 1 minute at the start means will be 4-5 minutes difference at the end of 60mins pt... The first 10-12mins are very important, I know some players still close the school for making more serfs avaiable for transporting wares to the building's bases.

Okay, the new fast unlock order is faster, and harder to say what is the best starting way in this mode, and maybe save the inn building time. But then why not play with just 55mins PT?
I like when players want to play faster a game which is originaly a slow game...and seems the things which make the game faster and produceable in PT always win... :?



Anyway is the old buildorder accelerated(if i remember well the iron mine should to unlock after the leather is ready)??
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dicsoupcan

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Post 16 Apr 2015, 07:41

Re: Conquest of Paradise 2p

thunder wrote:Anyway is the old buildorder accelerated(if i remember well the iron mine should to unlock after the leather is ready)??


the mine never unlocked after leather, it was a suggestion ocne made by someone but never official. old unlock order and new unlock order are exactly the same beyond building sawmill.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. ~ Winston Churchill

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