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Re: Useless posts about the maps

PostPosted: 02 Sep 2017, 18:11
by The Dark Lord
Because people are stupid and don't know how to fight, so they don't make pikes. :)

Re: Useless posts about the maps

PostPosted: 10 Sep 2017, 11:01
by thunder
The Dark Lord wrote:Because people are stupid and don't know how to fight, so they don't make pikes. :)

I remeber when I was playing SP always made only pikes because I liked their images mostly. :mrgreen: but nowadays...not playing SP.

Re: Useless posts about the maps

PostPosted: 13 Sep 2017, 16:28
by thunder
thunder wrote:Hey all,

Another useless post about maps. Today I was pick up one of the most balanced map in the KaM Remake. Yes, it is Eruption6P by TRB. But now I was checking a map differently from different point of view. From game replays. I was looking after PT armies between 59:50 - 60:00.
Peace time was 60 in every case and the speed setting 1*1* or 1,5*1. (If need can provide the replays, I have only 20 replays only but from the past 2years. 1v1, 2v2 mostly 3v3)

I was decided to make a table with PT barrack weapons and play with the numbers. MAybe we will see something interesting thing on the most balanced map. I'm sure Eruption has higher balance factor than Golden Cliffs or Shadow realm even these maps have huge!

Okay let see what I got from almost 100 PT barrack. Note, these are played with mostly average players like Mexi t, or me myself :mrgreen: nonono I'm trolling, but these games were played by players above EE level by average player. There are some great performanceand some lower too, but eachone tried to produce.

downloadlink for the raw data ... sp=sharing
Can see in the table the average values of the PT armies. The values are rounded. Funny thing is the average produced armors (leather jacket+iron armor) is more than the trainable recruits(65-55). But okay, recruits easy catch up production.
What is interesting after PT theoreticaly can make almost 9%more leather troops (30-25) than irontroops, but there is basic rule which says first train the strongest troops in this case the iron troops and then immediately gets more iron troops at PT than leather troops(25-30)
leather iron at PT.jpg

I like the sweets, even like more the cakes :P here is a cake about the average made weapons. What is again very very interesting. Of course the leather jacket and the ironarmor has the largest focus, but ...
All weapons.jpg

but intereting to see that there are 3 weapons less then 2%! pike,lances and xbows. If there would be real rock, paper scissors balance between the units, than why not see that in strategy selections on the most balanced maps? (these replays were saved in the past 2years in releas 6720 and only 3 were played by me)
I even could say only very few players 2-3 trying to force to use troops who using these weapons.
Still interesting to see that the leather jacket and ironarmor have very similar almost 50-50% rates. The average 55recruits tells us at PT only armored troops are trained. Nomilities at PT. (not only scouts are not there... :wink: )

Okay from the table and average values still an interesting one.
leather vs iron.jpg

This picture shows the all made weapons for iron and leather troops and presents them separatedly too only weapons without armors.(AX+BO+LA vs SW+XB+PI).

And at this last comment for the table is what is amaizing is:
EVERY almost 100barrack in 20 different replays had SWORDMAN still the weakest barrack had also minimum 8sword for making them!!(even if that can be knigths too)

Now really seems 1irontroop gets 1leather troop. Of course in the late game it is changing but when is the lategame really starting? :wink: I would offer that 1 iron troops get 2leather troops. More leather or less iron? even we can see the average can not train enough recruits for training all possible troops from the barrack...

The optimal would be for the game if the pt barrack would contains as much leather troops as can defeat or has chance to defeat the entire iron troops. I already would be a bit happier to see 60-40 or rather 65-35% advantage for the leather based troops.

This table could be way more different on 4-5ironmines maps, where are some strange strategies with massive iron also so the leather-iron graph give it a favor for iron.
Eruption is a map where mostly the strageies are based on 3piggies 1stable or 4 piggies+1stable.

From stats what i see is easier to make iron units. Harder to spam mass leather army in PT then making ironunits. Okay the leather troops are mostly from renewable materials and still are enough good in lategame but the lategame sometimes not coming if 10knights per player are there to acting as bow butchers. :mrgreen:

Have a good day!


The funny thing is I made similar table for 2 ironmines map and the weapons number are quite similar. a bit less swords, more xbow and pikes, woodenshields and axe. Swords made rather for making only knights. The average army based on mostly axefighters.

Only one thing is the same: the mass Bows.

Soon I will post the diagrams. Because 2 mines locations give the 1iron-2leather average and the rock paper scissors more common than on locations with 3 or 4++ironmines.

Re: Useless posts about the maps

PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 15:48
by thunder
Several months ago I shared a table about the maps and their properties. I guess most of the most played multiplayer maps are on it.(more than 40maps are included in it)
I found some interesting numbers.

*Longest roads from the storehouse to the nearest :
Goldmine: Loc3, Boarder Rivers 8p_original (65tiles)
Iron mine: Loc2, Boarder Rivers 8p_original (80tiles)
Forests(tree): Loc6 -Dance of Death (26tiles)

*Most starting woods: loc4,Wilderness (151trees)
*Most starting iron ore: loc5, Back in the Desert (636 ore)

*The follows could be useful for the further mapmakers:
The average roads to the nearest:
trees: 9,6
Stone: 8,9
Goldmine: 22,4
iron: 18,8

Re: Useless posts about the maps

PostPosted: 11 Apr 2018, 17:31
by Ben
I love these posts, Thunder. They're very interesting at the very least!

Re: Useless posts about the maps

PostPosted: 09 Jun 2018, 11:18
by thunder
League of Rebouption?