Ping and attack

[zombie01]

Is there a ping system in the game?
So you can ping on the map and your allies know they should focus their attention on that point or something?

Maybe it can also be changed in singleplayer a little, that when you ping somewhere (or with a special ping) your allied npc's will attack that spot.

[Krom]

Yes, it's called Beacons. Press "b" and click on the map to place a beacon that your allies will see.

For Single-Player there's no such functionality.

[thunder]

Could you add another two pings which would sign to your mate to attack that gruop and one ping to sign retreat? Now use to have to write why beaconed somebody when the player does not have mic or live voice connection. Personaly it could be very useful because I'm a very slow typer.
Buttons 'v' and 'n'. same as beacon but with different sound. if no, then there is possibility to add them via dynamic script?
Thank you!
t

[Rey]

I also had an idea of adding more beacon to what we have now.
Its very easy to add, just need 2 more sprites for them, if someone can draw them I'll add new beacons with pleasure.

[Rey]

I am going to add more pings into the game.

@thunder suggested to add 2 new beacon types - attack and retreat.
Or may be attack and defend? Or even all 3 of them?
What do we need more?
I did not play for a while, so its hard to say for me now what is more usefull

If we want to add retreat beacon, what could be on its icon? Some turning back arrow?

For attack I can use some sword, for defend - shield. And we already have some icons for that, so there is no problem to compile new attack/defend icon from them.
But for retreat - I will need some help.

[Tiank]

About retreat icon, that turning back Arrow would be the best, The round one, so that it's obvious that it mean retreat regardless of direction player is heading.

And there's one important thing - each new beacon should have different sound. Let's go even further, how about short Word message, like "attack", "defend" and "retreat". That would be the most obvious and clear, beacons should be set in a way, that can't be spammed and voice should be different from troop's voice (maybe we can ask Morgan Freeman to record the lines? Or use Creative Commons). What do you think about that?

[Toxic]

If we want to add retreat beacon, what could be on its icon?

In a large number of strategies (at least all Total war games) is retreat represented by the white flag.

[Rey]

I tried to ask Morgan, but he did not took the phone.

What if we will use Arny's 'I'll be back' there ? For sure if you retreat you will come back to attack one day. Not talking about some coward strats like kill all the citizens, we are honored people!
For attack - we can use smth from Lord of the rings of Game of thrones battle scenes. There are lots of 'charge' stuff.
For defend - smth from 300 (spartans) would be most appropriate.

Or may be use some classic music, or smth medieval? I am not 100% sure.

@Tiank, what do you think?

@moderator
I think we need to move this thread to 'General Chit Chat', thx!

[Rey]

If we want to add retreat beacon, what could be on its icon?

In a large number of strategies (at least all Total war games) is retreat represented by the white flag.

May be.

[Tiank]

Rey, I was serious about short voice messages for different beacons (only mr Morgan part was a joke, obviously). I'm worried that having 3 different beacons would be too complicated. Different icons are really helpful, but in a heat of battle players still could be easily confused. With short voice message it would be the best I think (most obvious), but it might be problematic if beacon is spammed, that's why there should be delay, like 1-2 seconds between beacons. Right now players are spamming beacons (like 4-5 in a row) to show what to do, like move forward or go back.

Which is another problem - what about beacon for just moving troops? If there's a need for just move to a certain position, which beacon should player use? Attack, defend or retreat? Or add another one, so there're 4 beacons?

Also, how do you imagine managing 3-4 shortcuts on keyboard just for beacons? And to make them in a way, that they are obvious?

I don't think there's a need for "defeat" beacon. If you want a player to defend, you just ping in a place to make him stay there.

Actually, when you think about it, there's no really need for more beacons. If you want teammate to attack, you ping at his army, then in front of his army to show the direction and then at enemy's army. Three pings showing path of action. Plain and simple. And if you want a teammate to retreat, ping at him, then behind him and then some further away.

So maybe what we need is not another beacon, but education and awareness about how use beacons? I'm not suggesting, that thunder is not educated about beacons, but this whole post of mine made me think, that if there's one, common way of using beacons it would be easier for everyone to communicate instead of adding more beacons, that could be just more confusing.

TL;DR: we need bigger awareness about how effectively use beacons instead of more beacons.

[thunder]

Hi!
Edited an example. Only need to rename the files because it is the beacon reworked version. I don't know how could I try it out myself in game.
have a good a day!
t

4_0250.png

[Rey]

Edited an example. Only need to rename the files because it is the beacon reworked version. I don't know how could I try it out myself in game.

Not bad for the start. May be we need a bit smaller arrow. Also another small texture for minimap needed.


Tiank, well it would be funny to hear 'I'll be back' from one knight, who made his way throught city defence and kill couple dozens of serfs

Rey, I was serious about short voice messages for different beacons

That is almost imposibble to archive - who will record it? What about translations? It still sounds like a joke ))

I'm worried that having 3 different beacons would be too complicated.

We can try to add new sound for them (just edit existing beacon sound a bit, f.e.), but even with the same sound different beacons could be ok.

it might be problematic if beacon is spammed, that's why there should be delay, like 1-2 seconds between beacons. Right now players are spamming beacons (like 4-5 in a row) to show what to do, like move forward or go back.

I agree. We can fix it - do not let spam beacons too often, maximum 1 beacon per 1-2 sec.

Which is another problem - what about beacon for just moving troops? If there's a need for just move to a certain position, which beacon should player use? Attack, defend or retreat? Or add another one, so there're 4 beacons?

In we look at that problem with a bigger scope - its communication problem. One time I proposed to add drawing on minimap - like in some other games - so you will be able to show, where do you want go with arror or smth like that. But we declined that propositing, because of possible abuses by some immature minds.

So these beacons is one of possible ways to get better communication between players.
There are some other things that I do to make communications easier:
a) no need to close chat to control units/houses etc - chat may remain open and you do not need to open/close it all the time
b) to prevent chat/beacons abuse - new mute buttons - so you can mute any bothersome player from chat/beacons spam

Also, how do you imagine managing 3-4 shortcuts on keyboard just for beacons? And to make them in a way, that they are obvious?

We have done hotkey bindings. By default we can leave new beacons as without any bind. But for players who need them - they could set any keyboard or even mouse button (middle mouse or extra mouse buttons -mouse 4/5).

TL;DR: we need bigger awareness about how effectively use beacons instead of more beacons.

Awareness of all players is unachievable value. I understand your worrys about beacon crazyness, but it would be great to improve players communication abilities. May be with help of beacons, may be not.

I think we need more opinions on that.

[thunder]

Yes, I forgot the minimap. Who using the minimap in 2k17?
Anyway agree, maybe more shadow or shine would be nice on this mark.
Can you give me instruction how can I check how would it looks out in the game? Is there possibility to try it out mysllf too?
Where would I have to copy to this image be presented?

Putting these two beacons next to each other.

4_0250.png

[Rey]

Can you give me instruction how can I check how would it looks out in the game? Is there possibility to try it out mysllf too?
Where would I have to copy to this image be presented?

Create Sprites folder in the game folder and put replacement sprite into it with the same name.

So you will need to put your arrow sprites as follows:
%KAM_REMAKE_FOLDER%/Sprites/4_0250.png
and
%KAM_REMAKE_FOLDER%/Sprites/4_0250a.png

[Rey]

@Tiank - I have added beacon spam delay here, same as we have for chat.