Kam pro dedicated server.

[Bo_]

Hi there,

new release means new players and new servers to play on.
The problem is that most servers loose quality when too many players play on it,
or some have just too much latence.
So my idea is to buy a pro server with dedicated cores. (1 core = 1-20 games at the same time in optimal game conditions!)
I would host the server in Frankfurt, sinds I think it's best for the most players here,
but there could also be a miroir, allowing people living futher away to also benifit from the optimal game conditions.

Since more and more players are using team speak for kam, I would also propose to host our own team speak server on it,
wich we can modify the way we want it.

So yes a very performant server would realy be nice I think,
even if it was only to have faster response time.
So if people are interested in something like that, 1 pro server that's better than 10 weaker servers, then tell me.
Of course we all know that something like that isn't free but we'll discuss that later.

So I hope more players would be interested in this.

[T*AnTi-V!RuZz]

Hi there,

new release means new players and new servers to play on.
The problem is that most servers loose quality when too many players play on it,
or some have just too much latence.
So my idea is to buy a pro server with dedicated cores. (1 core = 1-20 games at the same time in optimal game conditions!)
I would host the server in Frankfurt, sinds I think it's best for the most players here,
but there could also be a miroir, allowing people living futher away to also benifit from the optimal game conditions.

Since more and more players are using team speak for kam, I would also propose to host our own team speak server on it,
wich we can modify the way we want it.

So yes a very performant server would realy be nice I think,
even if it was only to have faster response time.
So if people are interested in something like that, 1 pro server that's better than 10 weaker servers, then tell me.
Of course we all know that something like that isn't free but we'll discuss that later.

So I hope more players would be interested in this.

I like the idea, but who's going to pay for it?

[Krom]

Idea is good, maybe we could even move KaM Master server to that place, but whats the price of it and how do you plan to keep it funded for at least 1-2 years? Who will dedicate his time to maintain it function at 24/7 ?

[Lewin]

Hopefully the lag won't be a problem now because more servers are updated. Having 60 players all on one server isn't ideal, our network system needs to be better designed to work like that (there's no reason why it shouldn't work, there are just flaws in our system like delay adjustment, lack of threads, etc.)

If lag is still an issue today please let us know, I am interested in improving the network code to run better.

[Nissarin]

Speaking from experience... at one point there was over 50 ppl on Nizgard yesterday (14 rooms), however cpu usage oscillated near 10-15%, I don't think it ever exceeded 20%. Well, the point is, you don't need powerful PC to host KaM server, if the lag is an issue then polishing networking code should be enough.

[Private.NL]

Hi there,

new release means new players and new servers to play on.
The problem is that most servers loose quality when too many players play on it,
or some have just too much latence.
So my idea is to buy a pro server with dedicated cores. (1 core = 1-20 games at the same time in optimal game conditions!)
I would host the server in Frankfurt, sinds I think it's best for the most players here,
but there could also be a miroir, allowing people living futher away to also benifit from the optimal game conditions.

Since more and more players are using team speak for kam, I would also propose to host our own team speak server on it,
wich we can modify the way we want it.

So yes a very performant server would realy be nice I think,
even if it was only to have faster response time.
So if people are interested in something like that, 1 pro server that's better than 10 weaker servers, then tell me.
Of course we all know that something like that isn't free but we'll discuss that later.

So I hope more players would be interested in this.

I like the idea, but who's going to pay for it?

Donations?

[T*AnTi-V!RuZz]

Donations?

That's never going to be enough (not even near).

[Lewin]

Donations?

That's never going to be enough (not even near).

I also don't think that's necessary, it probably won't solve the lag problems (I think it's more related to the net code or clients with slow computers) and we already have a good team speak server (even though it's shared with other channels). As you can see from our servers page a lot of people are running servers for us, if we need something hosted we could probably find someone willing to do it.

[Bo_]

Speaking from experience... at one point there was over 50 ppl on Nizgard yesterday (14 rooms), however cpu usage oscillated near 10-15%, I don't think it ever exceeded 20%. Well, the point is, you don't need powerful PC to host KaM server, if the lag is an issue then polishing networking code should be enough.

It's not just about cpu, it's more about lag and internet connection, probably the biggest problem with actual servers.
They propose a mirroir, what's the use?
Imagine a player in Australia with and average internet connection,
he'll just synchronise with the mirroir wich will synchronise way faster with the master server in Europe than he would actualy do.

Hopefully the lag won't be a problem now because more servers are updated. Having 60 players all on one server isn't ideal, our network system needs to be better designed to work like that (there's no reason why it shouldn't work, there are just flaws in our system like delay adjustment, lack of threads, etc.)

If lag is still an issue today please let us know, I am interested in improving the network code to run better.

Well everything runs smooth indeed but response time is slow sometimes,
wich can realy ruin the game. (You sometimes just loose because of that.)
Also servers sometimes stop responding for a few seconds. (Happens almost every game.)
Maybe if the servers are more powerfull, they could calculate more, decreasing the needed connection for some things?
Like for example giving an order to soldiers or placing buildings.

Idea is good, maybe we could even move KaM Master server to that place, but whats the price of it and how do you plan to keep it funded for at least 1-2 years? Who will dedicate his time to maintain it function at 24/7 ?

I had verygames in mind, I bought servers there before and I believe me, great quality.
Prices variate from 40 to 200 euros a month,
depending on the amount of cores and additional disc space.
(We get 5 giga for free and it's 80 cent for each additional gigabyte.)
but if we take for a long time we can have massive reductions.
I can also try to get the server for free, in exchange for advertising of course.
Still what I had in mind was to find enough people who want to help to pay every month.
(I could give 20 euors every month for exmple)
I agree donations just won't work.
I think the community is big enough for that but it could be a problem indeed.

When I played Starcraft 2 I didn't had any issues, even against people with slower connections so I know it has to be possible for kam too.

[Lewin]

It's not just about cpu, it's more about lag and internet connection, probably the biggest problem with actual servers.
They propose a mirroir, what's the use?
Imagine a player in Australia with and average internet connection,
he'll just synchronise with the mirroir wich will synchronise way faster with the master server in Europe than he would actualy do.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. What do you mean by mirrors and master servers?

Well everything runs smooth indeed but response time is slow sometimes,
wich can realy ruin the game. (You sometimes just loose because of that.)
Also servers sometimes stop responding for a few seconds. (Happens almost every game.)
Maybe if the servers are more powerfull, they could calculate more, decreasing the needed connection for some things?
Like for example giving an order to soldiers or placing buildings.

The response time is calculated purely from pings, nothing else. Our servers don't know anything about the KaM game, they just act like a repeater forwarding packets around. So very little CPU power should be required. The best way to get a better response time is to play with players who have low, stable pings. The delayed response is only required because it takes time for the command to be sent to all the other players, it's not related to the server's CPU speed, it's all about the net connections.

When you say the server stops responding for a few seconds, how do you know it is the server and not just one of the clients? If a client stops responding for a few seconds (e.g. a connection problem), it will make everyone freeze for a few seconds. You can tell if the server had an issue because the pings for ALL players will jump significantly for 1 update about the moment when the game unfreezes. If only one player's ping jumps significantly, then it's that player who caused the freeze.

Unfortunately I really don't think you'll get better games on a server like that. Some of our servers (for example SpecialAttack.net) are hosted by game server hosting companies, on servers that run Battlefield and other servers with no problem. They should cope fine with our tiny little KaM packet repeater. I really believe the lag problem is more related to the net code. There's also the problem of slow clients. If someone with a slow old computer joins, and his CPU can only manage to run the game at half speed, then the game will run at half speed for everyone. Even if he has a good CPU but a really bad graphics card that can make the game lag. And it's really hard to identify who is causing the problem.

I'd like to do some profiling and testing to try and figure out what causes lag or poor response time calculations. I'd also like to find out why our ping is much higher than other games. I'm no expert at network programming, and there do appear to be issues in the current system.

When I played Starcraft 2 I didn't had any issues, even against people with slower connections so I know it has to be possible for kam too.

I bet Starcraft 2's net code is much better than ours, and they had dozens more programmers, more experience, and more money. Yes it's possible for KaM to be that good, but it will take a lot of effort.

[Bo_]

If you tell me it won't make any difference I believe you on that, you know the code, I don't.
So indeed no need of a better server.
Still about team speak server, it's ok for now but if more players keep using team speak for kam a personal ts server would realy be better.

[EDMatt]

If you tell me it won't make any difference I believe you on that, you know the code, I don't.
So indeed no need of a better server.
Still about team speak server, it's ok for now but if more players keep using team speak for kam a personal ts server would realy be better.

Imagine a teamspeak server where i am host and I can kick anyone and anything paradise!

[T*AnTi-V!RuZz]

If you tell me it won't make any difference I believe you on that, you know the code, I don't.
So indeed no need of a better server.
Still about team speak server, it's ok for now but if more players keep using team speak for kam a personal ts server would realy be better.

Imagine a teamspeak server where i am host and I can kick anyone and anything paradise!

That's probably the reason there's no KaM Teamspeak server where you are host

[Lewin]

If you tell me it won't make any difference I believe you on that, you know the code, I don't.
So indeed no need of a better server.
Still about team speak server, it's ok for now but if more players keep using team speak for kam a personal ts server would realy be better.

Imagine a teamspeak server where i am host and I can kick anyone and anything paradise!

That's probably the reason there's no KaM Teamspeak server where you are host

Yeah I can't imagine many people wanting to use such a server, I wouldn't.

[sado1]

Come on guys... did Matt abuse the kick command at least once in his life? Why are you so mean...

^^