Single Player Maps Report - r6720

[Vatrix]

PLEASE POST EVERYTHING IN THE DISCUSSION THREAD AND LEAVE THIS THREAD BLANK!
Link: http://knightsandmerchants.net/forum/vi ... f=5&t=3657

ABOUT
Greetings, fellow Knights and Merchants players! Welcome in my thread about singleplayer maps, which should describe to you which maps and why are suitable for next release. I tried to make it short, but detailed, so you can't say it's a fast thought I had on my way from work. Also I need to do a small disclaimer, since times are hard and full of triggered people. This thread in no way wants to attack authors of those maps, neither I want to make someone feel bad, for what they made in the past. We all want to make The Remake nice, tidy and enjoyable game and I wanted to add something to (or delete if you look at it from practical point of view).

TESTED MAPS

A Farmers Wish by Hellracer
Difficulty: Easy
First Attack Timer: 0h 40m

Highlights:
- map has a lot of elevation problems
- hill on the south-west of the village is not approachable and can confuse players
- first attack is very soon and may damage the otherwise easy difficulty
- enemy villages don't have stones, which makes towers redundant
- enemy resources should be split between storehouses
- enemy defense position makes them very easy target
- colors incorrectly ported from original game
+ initial attack looks menacing, but is beatable
+ enough space to build nice, prosperous village
+ ally tiny, but doesn't serve as a meaningless meat-shield

Suggestions:
* fix elevation
* make hill on the south-west approachable
* first attack should happen around 1h 30m to fit into map difficulty pattern
* redistribute enemy supplies
* change enemy defense positions
* change enemy colors to EXAMPLE

Verdict: SHOULD STAY AFTER FIXES ARE APPLIED

Another Day in Hell by Hellracer
Difficulty: Medium
First Attack Timer: 2h 15m

Highlights:
- stone on human location uncuttable in some areas
- minor elevation problems
- no enough iron to really have fun with it
- human player has enough soldiers from start to destroy both lather enemies
- south ally should make barbarians instead of militia // usage of ally as a plain meat-shield for no reason
- east ally should have school to prevent soldier starvation
- enemy attack should be set at 1:25 to make the pressure this difficulty needs
- enemy colors ported wrongly
+ map theme and positioning of players
+ map quality
+ space for building adequate for medium difficulty this mission provides
+ enemy cities defend each other to an extent

Suggestions:
* fix stone
* fix elevation
* add one more iron spot
* decrease amount of human player soldiers
* ally should make barbarians
* add school to east ally
* tweak enemy attack and recruitment rate
* fix colors

Verdict: SHOULD STAY AFTER FIXES ARE APPLIED

Barbarians by Crazy Guy
Difficulty: Harder
First Attack Timer: 1h 05m

Highlights:
- object spam to high heavens
- minor elevation problems
- non-interesting enemy setting
- enemies should make barbarians
- enemy cities not very interesting
+ enough resources to make the most of the game
+ location fits the difficulty
+ finally someone who doesn't use default colors
+ diverse map

Suggestions:
* fix elevation
* fix the object spam
* script for enemy to make barbarians

Verdict: SHOULD STAY AFTER FIXES ARE APPLIED

Dark Ravines and Dangerous Hills by Skypper
Difficulty: Very hard
First Attack Timer: 0h 01m

Highlights:
- map is not very interesting
+ this is how tactical maps should work today to be interesting
+ proper challenge for hardcore players

Notes:
Replay unavailable

Verdict: SHOULD STAY

Decaying hearts, purified by White Wolf
Difficulty: Medium
First Attack Timer: 1h 20m

Highlights:
- map needs some more work, mainly on mountains
- elevation is a bit out of place
- usage of objects that block walk or are not removable
- enemy resources are not properly distributed, mainly for green enemy
- victory conditions should be more transparent
+ enough space to build
+ perfect enemy attacks
+ enough resources to have fun
+ interesting usage of enemies to fight between each other

Suggestions:
* tweak the map, especially the mountains
* replace bad objects
* redistribute resources to enemies
* redo win conditions or make them understandable

Verdict: SHOULD STAY AFTER FIXES ARE APPLIED

Intermediary by The Dark Lord
Difficulty: Unbeatable
First Attack Timer: 0h 00m

Highlights:
- map is unbeatable
+ none

Suggestions:
* map should be completely redone

Verdict: SHOULD BE REMOVED

Invasion by Skypper
Difficulty: Very hard
First Attack Timer: 0h 05m

Highlights:
- none
+ proper tactical map
+ great challenge for hardcore players

Notes:
Replay unavailable

Verdict: SHOULD STAY

Island of Bandits by Merchator
Difficulty: Medium
First Attack Timer: 2h 05m

Highlights:
- overall map quality
- enemy city design
- first attack timing should be set around 1:30 to fit the difficulty
- blue enemy is very weak compared to other enemies
+ enough resources for enjoyable playthrough
+ enough space for building
+ balanced enemy attacks fitting for this difficulty
+ iron behind a challenge

Suggestions:
* redo the map
* redo the cities
* set first attack around 1:30
* make blue stronger

Verdict: SHOULD STAY AFTER FIXES ARE APPLIED

Lava Valley by Andreus
Difficulty: Harder
First Attack Timer: 0h 05m

Highlights:
- overall map quality
- object placement a bit off sometimes
- attacks are generated by a script, which is visible if you scout enough
- enemy should make barbarians instead of swordsmen
- cities are used just as a infinite generator of soldiers, not much though given into their design
- attacks stop targeting barracks after a while
+ need to defend to castle

Suggestions:
* completely remake the map

Verdict: SHOULD BE REMOVED

Leather Wars by Andreus
Difficulty: Hard
First Attack Timer: 1h 00m

Highlights:
- a bit of tree spam here and there
- minor elevation problems
+ enough resources
+ enough space for huge city
+ challenging attacks
+ nicely built cities

Suggestions:
* fix tree spam
* fix elevations

Notes:
Replay unavailable

Verdict: SHOULD STAY

On the Way by Phiona
Difficulty: Easy
First Attack Timer: 1h 20m

Highlights:
- usage of uncuttable trees in areas that should be cuttable
- minor tree spam
- minor elevation problems
- broken enemy attacks
+ enough resources
+ enough space for huge city
+ attacks fitting the difficulty
+ thought given in enemy cities
+ gold behind a challenge

Suggestions:
* fix trees
* fix elevation
* fix attacks to fit the story
* increase enemy recruitment rate a bit

Verdict: SHOULD STAY AFTER FIXES ARE APPLIED

Race Against the Clock by The Dark Lord
Difficulty: Harder
First Attack Timer: 0h 05m

Suggestions:
* redo the map

Verdict: SHOULD BE REMOVED

Smart by Nick
Difficulty: Easy
First Attack Timer: 1h 20m

Highlights:
- map says it's hard - it's not
- map could use some update
- enemy cities doesn't work properly
- win conditions should be more clear
+ enough resources
+ enough space for huge city
+ ally is not weak, useless meatshield (but can be used as one)

Suggestions:
* update the map
* fix enemy cities to work properly
* fix attacks

Verdict: SHOULD STAY AFTER FIXES ARE APPLIED

The Adventurer's Journey by Shadaoe
Highlights:
+ perfect rpg mod for the game (although not sure about it fitting the game, same problem goes with the minigames)

Verdict: SHOULD STAY

The Forbidden Land by Hellracer
Difficulty: Easy
First Attack Timer: 2h 00m

Highlights:
- enemy attacks should be more consistent
+ great map in most aspects

Suggestions:
* take a look at the attacks

Verdict: SHOULD STAY

The River by Hellracer
Difficulty: Easy
First Attack Timer: 1h 45m

Highlights:
- sometimes broken attacks
- leather enemy defeatable by starting army
+ great map in most aspects

Suggestions:
* take a look at the attacks

Verdict: SHOULD STAY

To the Capital by Gogoud
Difficulty: Unbeatable
First Attack Timer: 0h 05m

Notes
This map is a black mark on the singleplayer missions for far too long

Verdict: SHOULD BE REMOVED

Town Defence by Skypper
Difficulty: You choose!
First Attack Timer: You choose!

Notes:
Skypper's reliable classic!

Verdict: SHOULD STAY

MAPS THAT SHOULD BE REMOVED BY AUTHORS REQUEST
Pursuit for Power (Vatrix)
Two Sides (Vatrix)
Vortamic (Ben)

MAPS THAT SHOULD BE REMOVED FOR OTHER REASONS
Across the Desert (Joymania) - original map, reason for removal is because the map has no scenario and is available to play with same settings in mp
Border Rivers (Joymania) - original map, reason for removal is because the map has no scenario and is available to play with same settings in mp
Bridge Disaster (Joymania) - original map, reason for removal is because the map has no scenario and is available to play with same settings in mp
Catch the Snake (Tef) - nice scripted map, but as a mini-game representing some completely different product should have no place in scenario maps - can stay, thanks to Rey's changes
Land of Hills (Joymania) - original map, reason for removal is because the map has no scenario and is available to play with same settings in mp
Mountainous Region (Joymania) - original map, reason for removal is because the map has no scenario and is available to play with same settings in mp
Space Invaders (Sado) - nice scripted map, but as a mini-game representing some completely different product should have no place in scenario maps - can stay, thanks to Rey's changes
Wilderness (Joymania) - original map, reason for removal is because the map has no scenario and is available to play with same settings in mp

[thunder]

Do I write long posts

[Krom]

I don't think original KaM maps should be removed. They were historically available in SP and should remain that way.

[Vatrix]

Do I write long posts

Do you write constructive feedback?

I don't think original KaM maps should be removed. They were historically available in SP and should remain that way.

Since not all original maps are included anyway and with the fact, that the same exact maps are available in multiplayer, there is no reason to keep them taking space here. Those maps are not properly balanced anyway.

[thunder]

Do you write constructive feedback?

My opinion is can delete all of the maps.single player, multiplayer and campaigns.. The good maps will come back fastly.
Enough constructive?

[sado1]

Do you write constructive feedback?

My opinion is can delete all of the maps.single player, multiplayer and campaigns.. The good maps will come back fastly.
Enough constructive?

Not at all, but I still agree xD

About skirmish maps... how about making a shortcut to local network lobby in SP menu, or even slightly different GUI for skirmish on ANY multiplayer map? We could, if it's really needed, limit the maps that will appear in skirmish to those that are configured for player vs AI situation. This way, we let people play multiplayer maps against AI (including the original skirmish ones), while being able to delete original maps from the scenario list, which isn't supposed to have multiplayer maps there.

[Vatrix]

About skirmish maps... how about making a shortcut to local network lobby in SP menu, or even slightly different GUI for skirmish on ANY multiplayer map? We could, if it's really needed, limit the maps that will appear in skirmish to those that are configured for player vs AI situation. This way, we let people play multiplayer maps against AI (including the original skirmish ones), while being able to delete original maps from the scenario list, which isn't supposed to have multiplayer maps there.

You'll need to ask Rey about that, since he's the one who will have to do that anyway. If this won't happen before the next release, then I still propose removing those maps.

[Vatrix]

REPORT FINISHED!

[Rey]

Hi,
thank you for your report.

Sorry for posting here, but next information will affect decisions of what have to be done with some maps.

I implemented simple filter for the SP maps, so special maps, as well as old maps from original game could stay in the release.
To be able to see MP maps in the lists for Singleplayer they should have special flag in the .txt file: 'PlayableAsSP'. Similar to 'SetSpecial' and some other flags (BlockTeamSelection, BlockPeacetime, BlockFullMapPreview).
Btw I want to add ability to setup those flags in the MapEd.

I did not include any other changes into map list yet (f.e. I did not delete maps, that were requested by authors)

Few screenshots:

[Vatrix]

Hi,
thank you for your report.

Sorry for posting here, but next information will affect decisions of what have to be done with some maps.

I implemented simple filter for the SP maps, so special maps, as well as old maps from original game could stay in the release.
To be able to see MP maps in the lists for Singleplayer they should have special flag in the .txt file: 'PlayableAsSP'. Similar to 'SetSpecial' and some other flags (BlockTeamSelection, BlockPeacetime, BlockFullMapPreview).
Btw I want to add ability to setup those flags in the MapEd.

I did not include any other changes into map list yet (f.e. I did not delete maps, that were requested by authors)

Few screenshots:
...

Thanks for such an important news! This means minigames can stay in the game.

[Strangelove]

I do like the solution that rey proposed. However, it does not change that fact that alot of the SP Maps are broken and need fixing. If the original map makers aren't around anymore they should either be fixed by the community or removed. It doesnt make much sense imo to have a bunch or broken maps included in the remake that serve as nothing more than frustrate players that do look for some quality single player experience.