Knights and Merchants.net Forum

PostPosted: **15 Aug 2014, 15:03**

Hi,

I started working an a map that incorporates an idea I had for some time now. I am by no means finished, but I would like some early feedback regarding mainly the concept of the map.

The basic idea is that both players have a safe area with only one access point. That area will be small and won't have access to iron. Iron trading is disabled, forcing the players to go out of the safe zone and build in the area that is much more open. I got this idea from playing 1v1 on The Same Rocks on the corner locs.

I would of course like your feedback, ideas and suggestions

What I have done so far:

Just a composition mockup:
left loc

right loc

PostPosted: **15 Aug 2014, 17:51**

Well the concept is really nice, the execution however... is not as good imo. if that bridge is the entire base entrance people will tend to stay in base with mass ranged units. not matter how you attack you are guaranteed to have heavy losses giving you slim chances of succesfully assaulting the base. even in such a tiny space i think people would be able to field a camping base, because there is hardly anything you have to defend.

maybe widening the entrances will help, along with disabling towers. on a sidenote nice waterfall

PostPosted: **15 Aug 2014, 17:55**

Nice idea

. As for now, that safe zone in first picture seems to be really big, maybe make it smaller? So you can't have that many farms in safe zone (right now it seems you can fit around 10 farms there, I would aim for standard 5-6 farms within the safe zone). Also, would iron be available to reach? Cause I can't see it in any picture... I suggest to make at least one iron mountain quite close to the entrance (not right away, just not too far).

I'd like to see it when it's finished

. Keep up good work!

PostPosted: **15 Aug 2014, 20:15**

Thank you for the comments.

You both mention the size of the safe area. I will certainly have a look into that, try to lay out a city there and try a test siege perhaps. From what I see... I don't that there is that much actual space if the person stays inside. He won't have access to iron, so he will need enough wood, wood takes up a lot of space to be efficient. If he wants towers, less space for other things. But I will check it out.

Also, would iron be available to reach?

Of course, all the iron-bearing mountains (bottom and top) will be full of iron, the hard part won't be the iron alone, but defending the mining positions.

I'm gonna try to work on it as much as possible and later post updates.

PostPosted: **15 Aug 2014, 20:24**

Before you put too much more work in the map, please consider how far you will have to go for iron. When making a map, large distances seem much smaller. It might not look like much, but a 100 tile road is very annoying to build. It will take almost an hour to get to the iron, itself, let alone make weapons with it.
I think you should make the safe area much smaller, or at least allow quick access to the iron.

PostPosted: **15 Aug 2014, 21:09**

@Ben seems like you are right, at least considering the majority of players (I for one wouldn't mind building a long road). Seems like I will have to re-evaluate the composition.

On the other side, par of me still thinks that the road wouldn't be that much of a problem if the iron was revealed from the beginning (small window in the fog of war) which would get rid of the annoying road building by segments. And also when the player has to choose between equipping iron soldiers or staying in and doing it by peacetime it would make it balanced (I would like to think so).

PostPosted: **15 Aug 2014, 21:17**

@Ben seems like you are right, at least considering the majority of players (I for one wouldn't mind building a long road). Seems like I will have to re-evaluate the composition.

On the other side, par of me still thinks that the road wouldn't be that much of a problem if the iron was revealed from the beginning (small window in the fog of war) which would get rid of the annoying road building by segments. And also when the player has to choose between equipping iron soldiers or staying in and doing it by peacetime it would make it balanced (I would like to think so).

I don't think you understand how costly it is to build such a huge road. Everything will be exponential, but most importantly you'd need an extra 2 or 3 quarries and a LOT more builders. This will take more food, too. Besides, what fun is there in a long, lonesome road?

PostPosted: **15 Aug 2014, 21:28**

I don't think you understand how costly it is to build such a huge road. Everything will be exponential, but most importantly you'd need an extra 2 or 3 quarries and a LOT more builders. This will take more food, too. Besides, what fun is there in a long, lonesome road?

I think I understand

You wouldn!t make a lone road, you would shift part of the production (surely iron weapon and armor smithies) out there and some towers also. But yeah, it would be expensive. I'm gonna try to play it to see how fast it is gonna be.

Anyway I tried to cram as much in the base and this is what I came up with (it is actually 12 farms, so yeah, full leather-based city):

PostPosted: **15 Aug 2014, 21:30**

The idea of having to reach for iron is only gonna work when the iron is close enough. It's like the player who has iron, has more strength, so he can break through leather troops of other player (who chose to make mass leather e.g.). Iron should gave power on this map, but when it's too far, it's not worth reaching it. Cause the further it is, the more time you need to reach it, the more time you need, the less iron troops you could make within PT, which makes making leather only more worthy then.

So I think Ben is absolutely right about that iron mines (that's what I've wrote in my previous post as well anyway

).

PostPosted: **15 Aug 2014, 21:33**

The idea of having to reach for iron is only gonna work when the iron is close enough. It's like the player who has iron, has more strength, so he can break through leather troops of other player (who chose to make mass leather e.g.). Iron should gave power on this map, but when it's too far, it's not worth reaching it. Cause the further it is, the more time you need to reach it, the more time you need, the less iron troops you could make within PT, which makes making leather only more worthy then.

So I think Ben is absolutely right about that iron mines (that's what I've wrote in my previous post as well anyway ).

I do think you are right, I just don't want to

I'm gonna test it and probably downscale the map.

PostPosted: **16 Aug 2014, 06:16**

Good job keep going till the map is done

PostPosted: **16 Aug 2014, 07:46**

How about prebuilding part of the road to the iron? I think that would solve the problem.

PostPosted: **16 Aug 2014, 08:17**

Even with prebuilt road, the distance will remain the same, which mean serfs would need more time to deliver. Also, it would probably not look good on map... That's my opinion

.

PostPosted: **16 Aug 2014, 09:19**

If you then build the iron related stuff, castle etc., it won't be far. (Yes, I'm desperately clinging to the part I already made

)

PostPosted: **16 Aug 2014, 09:22**

Maybe you could move storehouse much closer to the bridge and iron mountains just next to river. This way it won't take that much effort to get to iron (that could motivate players to get it), but will still keep the need to defend your mines outside your base (no chokepoints there).

I always like maps that aren't all about defending one chokepoint, so I hope you will make it work.

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