TSK mission 11

[SirOj]

I found out there was a remake of this game a few weeks ago so I started playing again. I first played this game years ago. But that aside, I got a problem with mission 11. Up until now I always found a way to defeat the enemy (I had some problems with mission 8, but I managed). I know that ranged units are less powerful then in the original, but all other maps I managed to work with it. Now with mission 11 I'm really stuck.

I have looked around and have seen many replays and advices to pull the south town so that you can destroy it. But it seems to me all info is from the original game. Since I have tried lots of times, but no matter what I do the enemy kills my sword man in no time and then kills my crossbow man.
I think it is no longer possible to destroy the south camp with your starting troops.

So I tried to not attack and just build up an army. But then you have both camps attacking you almost at the same time. I know I'm not the fastest builder but I really see no way I can stop that big of an army that early on.

Can anyone show me or tell me what to do? Is there still a way to defeat the south camp early? If so how do you do it? If not how do you defend against both camps?

[cmowla]

What version of the remake do have?

If you have r5503,
I beat the entire mission with my starting/initial army in 30 minutes and 52 seconds. The replay is at the end of this post.

If you have r6720,
Both dicsoupcan and I made replays of beating TSK 11 and TSK 14 casually in this thread. When I say "casually", I mean not beating the mission with your initial army. In fact, all TSK missions can be beaten with your initial army.

For a "live" introduction to how to use building barriers/fences to win missions with your initial army, you can watch me beat TSK 02 and TSK 04 "live" without reloading saves and losing only a few troops. TSK 02. TSK 04. (Note that this version of TSK 04 had double the army in the first town as in the original game, just in case you're wondering.)

[SirOj]

Hello and thanks for your reply,

I play in r6720.

I have watched both replays of mission 11. I didn't like your replay since I find it kind of cheating to let them all wait between your buildings to fight 1 vs 3. For me that is the same using the chat to get 10 of every item in your magazine and then just make your army that way.
1 thing I noticed, when I attacked south's stone mason he would attack with about 15 knights, 15 crossbow men and some pikes. In your replay he only attacks with 1-3 unites at the time. ofc later he comes with more, but I found it ad least odd.

dicsoupcan also used the tactic (let them walk between 2 buildings) for a bit on the south, but could ofc just have used the stone there. And it looked like he could have done it without it if he would let them come more to his towers and been more careful with his troops.

I'm not saying that you did it wrong, but I hoped to see that you don't need to "cheat" to win.

I will try to let them cut threw the stone on the south and then pull them. Then I should be able to kill them before north attacks. From that moment it is just a question of having a big enough army ready to survive the first attack of north. If I'm able to do that then the rest should be easy.

You also said every mission of TSK can be won with the initial army. I assume that a some/a lot of them require you to use the tactic of let them walk between 2 builds? I know a few maps where this can be done without that, and I often do this to make maps a lot easier. I usually leave ad least 1 town alive so that I can just slowly build my town and then attack them. I know this can also been seen as cheating, I'm not angel. I just mean to say I don't mind doing stuff like that. What I do mind is that the makers of the game can never have intended that you play that way. So missions must be doable without using tactics like that.

[cmowla]

I just played this mission following your restrictions. I took out the south village and the first troops to the east without losing any troops in the first 30 minutes. If you would like me to finish this game, I will do so later when I have more time, but it should be clear that you can win from this point with your restriction.

TSK 11 Start.zip

[SirOj]

Have to say wauw. I would never thought of micro managing your army that way. Ofc it is still abusing the fact that the enemy will always go after the one that attacked them last, but that is ok with me. I can idd see how you can win now from this point.

I managed to win mission 11 a few hours back with waiting for south to cut threw the stone and then pulling them to me. Also managed to quickly do mission 12 by killing the first 2 enemy's with starting army, with only a few losses. ofc lvl 13 was easy so now I'm up to mission 14. But I'm going to do that tomorrow. Will watch your and dicsoupcan's replay to see when I can expect the first attack and that kind of stuff.

Thanks for showing me this, it really opens up new options for some missions.

[cmowla]

Ofc it is still abusing the fact that the enemy will always go after the one that attacked them last, but that is ok with me.

When you're at a huge disadvantage, you have to do something to bridge the gap. In fact, in r6720 (and in the remake, in general), the entire AI army will follow you forever. I don't think the original game is like this, and thus you cannot just draw out one group like in the days of old.

Thanks for showing me this, it really opens up new options for some missions.

Glad I could help. You should watch the replays in my signature to get some more ideas. I do use two buildings quite often, but I do use a lot of other techniques as well.

[cmowla]

ofc lvl 13 was easy so now I'm up to mission 14. But I'm going to do that tomorrow. Will watch your and dicsoupcan's replay to see when I can expect the first attack and that kind of stuff.

As you requested in your pm, I did find a way to fight following your restriction and fight further away from the green AI player's base, but it still sent all of its army.

I only have a replay which shows how to kill the entire green army on their second attack. I believe my build was much better this time (since I recently played this mission).

TSK 14 Start.zip

[Chris]

I hope you are joking , right? I watched this replay and it's just horrible. Plz don't take advice from this guy.
You make stone at 15 mins, gold at 45 mins. Your Inn was 8 minutes late etc etc

[Leeuwgie]

Who can spot the 10 differences?

[thunder]

Hey,
Well I read the posts and watched the attached replays also. But I think to this video shows a more elegant way how can you beat this mission.
If you watch and listen carefuly, then you will get lots of very usuful infos for building an effective and good village on any map in any game mode.
The video presents a pike+bows build up. And the barrack has around 60troops at PT which is enough to beat this mission.
Have fun for SP and I hope we will meet soon in MP games also!
t

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tRLMt6CWO0

[cmowla]

Thanks, Chris, for pointing this out to those who would have mistaken that I was trying to show an example of how to build for MP. It didn't even cross my mind that this was a possibility, as I didn't intend for it to be this.

You could have been a little nicer about it (as you unfairly reasoned that since I didn't build my town in the manner that you approve, then that cancels out all of my credibility of KaM, despite that I have beat missions no one thought was beatable), but, hey, I can clearly tell who doesn't like me on here.

You are clearly taking my replay out of context, acting like an efficient town is required to beat this mission or that I was claiming that my build was very efficient.

Clearly, you and I have different objectives for single player. Winning "elegantly" (losing tons of troops unnecessarily--hence needing a very productive village as to be able to afford to lose a lot of men and still manage to win) is not one of my priorities. I value every life. (Hence my 0 loss replays.) By nature, I don't need a whole lot of troops to beat any mission. Yes, I know, that's cheap/inelegant/abusive play. That's my style of play. That's the style of play it takes to beat the hardest SP missions in a reasonable amount of time, period.

For this replay, I just threw together a village which produced pikes and bows, to illustrate to SirOj how to fight the AI so that all of it doesn't come attack you at once. I was just giving a nice example of how the AI behaves...I didn't mean nor say that I was constructing the most efficient and perfect build for this map. I just did a quick "favor" for him. I was trying to be nice.

Then here you come 10 months later wanting to pick a fight with me about this for no good reason. I have no choice but to think that you're trolling, unless you genuinely don't know any better. Being it that you appeared to attack me with the "defending the sheep from the wolf in sheep's clothing type of approach", I can only conclude it being the former.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Now, seeing that Leeuwgie is actually a very good builder, I'm curious what type of town is (close to) optimal for the map "Two Sides" in r6720.

(I'm not being sarcastic here. I'm being serious. I am really curious.)

I'll be gracious and show him how NOT to build to save him time (I did this without reloading saves), should he desire to research about how to build a very efficient town that can afford heavy losses due to breaching an impeccable defense "ELEGANTLY" (not cheaply like me).

Now, I have a better (not best possible) build when I played in r6720. The only problem is, the replay broke for no reason (I didn't reload saves or anything.) Here is the partial replay/save file.

cmowla Two Sides (r6720).zip

The reason I bring up Two Sides is because this is the only SP map that I know of that you can arguably say requires a very efficient town, especially if you play "elegantly"/not "cheaply" like me.

[Chris]

Cmowla,

It was never my intention to start a fight nor hurt your feelings here. I almost feel like you are living in some other reality. Let me try to explain why..
Whenever I come to these forums, I often stumble upon your posts. You seem to like to spam this forum with all your achievements, time trials and putting link after link in your post showing off your Kam expert skill level.
Whenever someone acts like this, I don't automaticly dislike him/her, but it builds a certain expectation of this person you know?
To me it looks like your the one putting yourself above everyone else, the way you present yourself here as the "King of singleplayer"
As I downloaded this last replay of yours, I had a certain expectation of you. Also because in your avatar it says your Kam skill level is "Expert" You put it there yourself..

After painfully watching the level 14 replay you provided us with, seeing you making mistake after mistake I had the urge to reply to this post. Not necessarily to hurt your feelings, but maybe bring you back to reality. You come here, putting yourself on a pedestal as a legend, showing off all this achievements. When you have an ego like that and brag like the way you do, maybe it's for the best someone tells you the truth. It may hurt your feelings, I'm sorry for that.

Something else..
In your reply to my first post you say;

I didn't mean nor say that I was constructing the most efficient and perfect build for this map.

This is weird to me because a couple of post before that you clearly say;

I believe my build was much better this time

So first you say you did a much better build on mission 14, just to say now that you didnt care for making a nice base.

Furthermore it bothers me, it's actually you who is talking crap about us multiplayer players. You are the one showing off here, trying to impress people. You are the one calling yourself a Kam expert. You are the one looking for validation.
And when I take the time and effort to look at something you post here, you just disappoint me with a build like this. I can honestly say it was one of the worst builds I've ever seen. For anyone who doesn't believes me, go download that level 14 replay from this post and watch for yourself. Look at what you achieved in 1 hour of gameplay and try to convince us all again of your kam skill level.

[cmowla]

Oh, so you thought I was a decent player until you saw this replay that you were "expecting more"? I seriously doubt that. Don't post that as an innocent excuse when the rest of your posts says otherwise.

When I said "better build this time", I was comparing my build to my previous build. I hardly ever build anymore. In fact, the only time I really tried with my build was for Two Sides, but that was because I never used the market before or knew how it worked until I played that map. Before (and after) then, I haven't tried to improve my build. I'm not like you all who build every time you play AND IT'S REQUIRED OF YOU TO BUILD EFFICIENTLY.

As I said in my post, I really DON"T NEED to build well (and most of the time, I don't need to build at all), and that means that I can save the energy and just build casually.

If I wanted to, I could build like you all once I just try a little to see what's efficient (like you all have), but I don't see the point since I just play SP.

Bring me back to reality? I hate to say it, but many of the "good" players simply made the excuse that they don't care about singleplayer to try to beat maps like Invasion, when clearly none of them could beat it before I did, not even in Coop. I haven't seen anyone actually beat it yet (I have been told by one member that he beat it, but he used my strategy). I would LOVE to see someone beat it using her or her own strategy. How can I rank my skill level based off of this?

You see, we all might have different strengths. You may define good KaM skill level just based on how many troops and weapons you have in barracks at 1 hour. That's fine, but what about what you do with all of those troops? Are you also a good fighter?

In addition, there are very experienced players on here that do not want to change their KaM skill level from beginner to a higher rank because they want to avoid insults like this and are afraid of being accountable for their play. They lie about their skill level on here so that no one gives them any trouble.

I'm talking crap about you all for playing MP? Explain (with examples) of all of the things that I say against you all or put you down. You are really full of it.

My "spamming" of my skills is me competing against myself. When I beat a mission that I did previously, I am beating MY OWN record. I'm not pointing fingers.

I honestly don't know why my posts on here seem to bother you. Since you're "so good" and I'm "so bad" at KaM, YOU SHOULDN'T CARE AT ALL. It should be easy for you to disregard/ignore me.

Reality check? Look in the mirror...look in the mirror.

[Chris]

Reality check? Seriously??
You, my friend need a big wake up call.

Since you're "so good" and I'm "so bad" at KaM

You clearly can't read properly, because I never said I'm "so good"
Im just bursting your self created ego bubble here by saying, and I'm honestly not lying, my 6 year old son could build better than that replay you provided us with. I'm not the one claiming here to be that good, you are.. And when I confront you with reality, you get mad at me?
YOU, yourself seriously think you are expert in this game, this is very funny!
But reality is, you are an AI abusing single player player, that has no clue how this game even works.
But you keep on moaning and moaning post after post of all your great achievements. It's called bragging. Your so full of yourself, it's amazing.

By a quick look trough your recent posts, I seriously doubt your mental condition as you seem to be so proud of all the pathetic "victories" you've achieved. All you do here is looking for validation. You want us on our knees? All hail the great Christopher who proved the world was playing Kam all wrong, and his AI abusing tactics are the way to go? To me, you're the guy that brings a gun to a swordfight and walks away all proud. Be very proud my friend!

Furthermore, as I read more and more of your posts you keep making less and less sence to me..
Look at some quote's from yourself..

This of course would be a custom map for me, as I don't think anyone else would have the stomach to play it.

That is, I have played another perfect game.

Have no fear, cmowla is here!

I first will note that I've been called the best single player of this game (and I am humbly starting to believe it)

And what is this whole bs story of you not wanting to try multiplayer?

I've become so use to single player that it's really hard for me to picture how this game has any meaning in multiplayer (although my perspective is slowly changing). The reason now why I haven't played multiplayer is because I'm trying to teach truths behind this game and to show other humans how to view the AI correctly.

Therefore, in conclusion, I believe those who do not want to limit themselves and who do not want to abuse the AI started playing multiplayer for this very reason.

Here some more..

I saw how you built your town and how you fought in TSK02. Veteran skill level?

Also, it does not do anyone any good if you just play carelessly, teaching them bad building and fighting skills...but whatever makes you happy is fine.

The arrogance coming from this just amazes me..
You are actually attacking someone on his Kam skill level here? The guy that makes his Inn at 28 minutes? The guy that makes ZERO units in 1 hour? You must be joking, right?
Just keep pretending you're the king of singleplayer and don't forget to keep finding new excuses to not join us online!
To me, you are the biggest joke around here!

[cmowla]

I guess I can't blame you for your perspective of me, since I haven't illustrated yet on here of my potential to understanding how the building mechanics of this game works in any replays. My laziness has got the better of me, I suppose. All I can say is, you've really got the wrong idea about my capabilities.

Playing this game for such a long time in single player has gotten me so bored with building that for the past few years, I have actually changed my style of play to be what I have displayed to you all since the beginning of me being on here. I never really benefited from KaM Remake's more efficient villagers and the like, nor have I ever installed a patch. And thus I had developed a complex of all of the bugs that the original game had with building a town.

Should I make it a priority to perfect my building and town efficiency, I suppose you will hear of me in MP. That is, if you are still around when I potentially will make the time to do so. (KaM is not a life priority for me at the moment.)

Lastly, if in all of this, you have gotten fulfillment from doing a good deed (trying to show someone who is lost that he is lost) and you feel better about your six year old son, then this conversation has served some good?