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Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

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Plaguesworn

Militia

Posts: 44

Joined: 16 Oct 2010, 22:00

Location: Belgium

Post 02 Jul 2012, 10:09

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

I still don't approve of building "towers walls" making it impassible for militia to even walk/storm in at the enemy, but I do appreciate that the accuracy of towers had been decreased. But that the attack value of ranged units is decreased as well is still nagging me. About the marketplace, at first I did not really like it that much. But it's actually a great addition to the K&M experience. If you had been too reckless with resources while playing online the marketplace can always back you up and prevents you from being stuck, e.g. running out of gold in early game. Besides, you can exchange gold, iron ore, gold ore, etc. for weapons and/or food, but you do forget that these actions aren't very beneficial at all. For all of the above goods are limited and exhaustible and therefore would it be very foolish to focus on trading these away, for it would only lead to your demise. The marketplace is very good in early game though, e.g. when you severely lack wood => buy trunks/planks on the market.
Last edited by Plaguesworn on 02 Jul 2012, 14:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Krom

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Knights Province Developer

Posts: 3282

Joined: 09 May 2006, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Location: Russia

Post 02 Jul 2012, 12:02

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

Maybe catapults will come in place here? What if we add catapults that are affective against buildings, but are weak against troops? (e.g. they take time to reload, they don't account for unit movement and their rocks will fly slowly).
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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Private.NL

Axe Fighter

Posts: 77

Joined: 26 Jun 2012, 13:31

KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Post 02 Jul 2012, 12:55

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

Maybe catapults will come in place here? What if we add catapults that are affective against buildings, but are weak against troops? (e.g. they take time to reload, they don't account for unit movement and their rocks will fly slowly).
I think it that would be good, but then the catapult got have recruits in it, and it must use stone imo.
Always look on the bright side of KaM! :D
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Krom

User avatar

Knights Province Developer

Posts: 3282

Joined: 09 May 2006, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Fair

Location: Russia

Post 02 Jul 2012, 13:46

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

We can't add recruits, all units have the same size in KaM. Placing two units in one tile will not look good either. I don't think adding stone supply to catapults is going to work out good, because then archers will need arrows and whole thing becomes way complicated in logistics.

IMO the idea behind the catapults is that you kill most of the enemies forces or they hide in a town and you have some time (~3-5min) to move in catapults to start the siege. Of course the besieged opponent should be able to recover. In conjunction this means that catapults should be quite slow and weak, but yet powerful enough to pose a serious threat to buildings and be a better choice in siege than normal troops.
Knights Province at: http://www.knightsprovince.com
KaM Remake at: http://www.kamremake.com
Original MBWR/WR2/AFC/FVR tools at: http://krom.reveur.de
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Lewin

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KaM Remake Developer

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Joined: 16 Sep 2007, 22:00

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ICQ: 269127056

Website: http://lewin.hodgman.id.au

Yahoo Messenger: lewinlewinhodgman

Location: Australia

Post 02 Jul 2012, 13:51

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

I agree with Krom, we should show beacons from allies on the minimap, and units/buildings that are being attacked (most games use a flashing effect to make it obvious, e.g. a flashing red X)

I also agree that if catapults are added, they should be designed for destroying buildings and be ineffective against units.
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FeyBart

User avatar

Knight

Posts: 402

Joined: 28 Dec 2011, 16:35

KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Location: Nutville, NL

Post 02 Jul 2012, 14:27

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

I think minimap needs at most 2-3 alert types, not more. Otherwise it turns into a glittering fireworks display.

1. being beacon placed by you and/or allies (duration limited to e.g. 5sec)
2. military conflicts (not sure how to detect and display this one yet)
3. something else?
I agree with Krom, we should show beacons from allies on the minimap, and units/buildings that are being attacked (most games use a flashing effect to make it obvious, e.g. a flashing red X)
I'd say a beacon, military conflicts, and a general one for stuff that needs your attention. Just one sign for all the things your buildings need. If it comes together with a message, it should be clear enough, and even if it doesn't, you can still see it pretty easily if it's just on the map.
So many Towers really destroy the game.
Same with market

Abuse market like this
for example
1 market exchange gold
2 market exchange iron
3 market exchange coal
4 market exchange stone
for weapons and food

Really great work.
I'm glad you appreciate the work Lewin and Krom did so much. Be sure to do some more of this really awesome commentary. I'm sure they'll like it.
I still don't approve of building "towers walls" making it impassible for militia to even walk/storm in at the enemy, but I do appreciate that the accuracy of towers had been decreased. But that the attack value is decreased as well is still nagging me. About the marketplace, at first I did not really like it that much. But it's actually a great addition to the K&M experience. If you had been too reckless with resources while playing online the marketplace can always back you up and prevents you from being stuck, e.g. running out of gold in early game. Besides, you can exchange gold, iron ore, gold ore, etc. for weapons and/or food, but you do forget that these actions aren't very beneficial at all. For all of the above goods are limited and exhaustible and therefore would it be very foolish to focus on trading these away, for it would only lead to your demise. The marketplace is very good in early game though, e.g. when you severely lack wood => buy trunks/planks on the market.
Uhuh. I agree. If these goods can't be exhausted, the map isn't very balanced.\
Maybe catapults will come in place here? What if we add catapults that are affective against buildings, but are weak against troops? (e.g. they take time to reload, they don't account for unit movement and their rocks will fly slowly).
Sounds like fun.
(...)
I think it that would be good, but then the catapult got have recruits in it, and it must use stone imo.
I don't think that would be very balanced. If you don't make it too overpowered, you shouldn't have to make it use stones. It costs a lot, and if the benefits aren't too big, there's no need to let serfs cross the maps with stones, vulnerable for any enemy unit coming by, just to let the catapult do one extra shot. If the loading times are long enough, and it doesn't do too much damage, I don't think it's necessary to let it use stones.

I don't know about the recruits, though. I would be okay if it'd take one recruit to deploy one catapult, but I don't know if it's really necessary. You could also just let it require more resources.
Nice coffee is always nice.
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Plaguesworn

Militia

Posts: 44

Joined: 16 Oct 2010, 22:00

Location: Belgium

Post 02 Jul 2012, 14:31

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

I just enjoyed the game now more because the catapults and ballistas are excluded, not only because they were overpowered back in TPR, but because they don't really look to fit with the K&M environment: they move on their own.

Furthermore are they too slow, so they won't be very usefull to besiege an enemy town. Just put some crossbowmen/bowmen close to your towers and they will nock the catepults down before they can react. And even then they will be no match for crossbowmen/bowmen because you stated that they are not very effective when facing a soldier. so they serve no purpose in K&M Remake and I would not like to see them ever again in K&M. :wink:
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FeyBart

User avatar

Knight

Posts: 402

Joined: 28 Dec 2011, 16:35

KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Location: Nutville, NL

Post 02 Jul 2012, 14:54

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

I just enjoyed the game now more because the catapults and ballistas are excluded, not only because they were overpowered back in TPR, but because they don't really look to fit with the K&M environment: they move on their own.
In that case, we'd have to redesign the sprites, so a serf or a recruit would push them around, or a horse would pull it.

I prefer a serf or recruit though. I think horses are a bit too expensive.
Furthermore are they too slow, so they won't be very usefull to besiege an enemy town. Just put some crossbowmen/bowmen close to your towers and they will nock the catepults down before they can react. And even then they will be no match for crossbowmen/bowmen because you stated that they are not very effective when facing a soldier. so they serve no purpose in K&M Remake and I would not like to see them ever again in K&M. :wink:
Of course, they'd have to have some defense, and you should always take soldiers with you to guide them.
Nice coffee is always nice.
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Da Revolution

Knight

Posts: 720

Joined: 13 Apr 2012, 12:07

Location: Near the inn

Post 02 Jul 2012, 14:54

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

every single infantry unit could kill it. Militia => charge to catapult => problem solved :D
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path" - Buddha
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FeyBart

User avatar

Knight

Posts: 402

Joined: 28 Dec 2011, 16:35

KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Location: Nutville, NL

Post 02 Jul 2012, 14:57

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

every single infantry unit could kill it. Militia => charge to catapult => problem solved :D
So that's why you should use soldiers to guide it. If you just plainly do an all catapult attack, you're going to waste your resources. You should make it part of a bigger siege. It should not be the cornerstone, but just a little extra type of unit you use to speed it up.
Nice coffee is always nice.
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Garnu_Thorn

User avatar

Rogue

Posts: 54

Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 22:00

KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Yahoo Messenger: garnuthorn

Location: Green Bay, WI

Post 02 Jul 2012, 15:02

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

If a horse pulls the catapult, the animation could incorporate something akin to Rise of Nations, where the unit unpacks to fire, packs to move. Might take up more than the usual number of tiles for unit animation, though.
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Da Revolution

Knight

Posts: 720

Joined: 13 Apr 2012, 12:07

Location: Near the inn

Post 02 Jul 2012, 15:09

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

So that's why you should use soldiers to guide it. If you just plainly do an all catapult attack, you're going to waste your resources. You should make it part of a bigger siege. It should not be the cornerstone, but just a little extra type of unit you use to speed it up.
Even with guidance it will be quite easy in my opinion
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path" - Buddha
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FeyBart

User avatar

Knight

Posts: 402

Joined: 28 Dec 2011, 16:35

KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Location: Nutville, NL

Post 02 Jul 2012, 15:17

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

If a horse pulls the catapult, the animation could incorporate something akin to Rise of Nations, where the unit unpacks to fire, packs to move. Might take up more than the usual number of tiles for unit animation, though.
Off topic here, but you play Rise of Nations? That's pretty cool. I didn't know anybody else who played that game.
(...)
Even with guidance it will be quite easy in my opinion
It should be part of a big attack, not the cornerstone of the attack, with just a bit of guidance. Like I said, catapults alone aren't effective if it gets done like I think it should. They should just be put at the back of a big wave of units and have a fairly large range, so they wouldn't be to vulnerable to enemy attacks.
Nice coffee is always nice.
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Plaguesworn

Militia

Posts: 44

Joined: 16 Oct 2010, 22:00

Location: Belgium

Post 02 Jul 2012, 17:27

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

It wouldn't matter if you guid it are not, when it's attacking a tower for example and the enemy moves a few ranged units in then the catapults will easily be destroyed. It doesn't matter of you have melee units to fend horses off for example. I just hope they will never return to K&M, those nasty catapults and ballistas, they simply do not work in many aspects, read screwing up the game balance.
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FeyBart

User avatar

Knight

Posts: 402

Joined: 28 Dec 2011, 16:35

KaM Skill Level: Beginner

Location: Nutville, NL

Post 02 Jul 2012, 17:36

Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

It wouldn't matter if you guid it are not, when it's attacking a tower for example and the enemy moves a few ranged units in then the catapults will easily be destroyed. It doesn't matter of you have melee units to fend horses off for example. I just hope they will never return to K&M, those nasty catapults and ballistas, they simply do not work in many aspects, read screwing up the game balance.
Again, give it some good defense and move it away when it's being attacked.

I really don't get why people are complaining about it being overpowered the first moment, and then complaining about it being underpowered the next. We can find a middle.
Nice coffee is always nice.

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