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Unpopular Multiplayer Maps

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Luki

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Post 08 Aug 2012, 10:42

Re: Unpopular Multiplayer Maps

I started RMK by playing coops with my sister( we werent good players at the beginming(, and we won very easy TSK 20( with just 3-4 attacks on us) and TSK 8, so in my opinion it still will be easy, but little more harder than now ;]
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Lewin

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Post 08 Aug 2012, 11:19

Re: Unpopular Multiplayer Maps

I started RMK by playing coops with my sister( we werent good players at the beginming(, and we won very easy TSK 20( with just 3-4 attacks on us) and TSK 8, so in my opinion it still will be easy, but little more harder than now ;]
Thanks, I've made the AI train troops a bit faster and start making recruits earlier so they'll attack you sooner.
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Remake 2012

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Post 08 Aug 2012, 12:06

Re: Unpopular Multiplayer Maps

Hi guys, ok lets go:

1000 Corpses - is balanced !
The principle of the map is 3v5. Many times I saw that players were fifth How can I speak here of the balance as they do not play like the map was created. !
in new version I fix : folds

A Clash of Kings - co-op map ( new)
Is good, and balanced i played with 8p, and ... plyes very good. ! **I blocked the passage between the rivers on the left. to TDL :)

Bad Mountains - Is balanced -_-
this map is 3v5 not : 2v4 or 3v4 !!!
To map was balanced the need to 8 players. no less! Just as a map of "1000 Corpses" I saw that the players do not play 3v5 and just, 2v4 or 3v3!
in new version I fix : folds
+ fix area
+ fix towers in loc 1
+ other fix

Battle Moon - is good,
The map is unique, only you can fight it with ONLY iron. Has a different area than the other maps. The new version improved the locations of central players. Balanced ++
in new version I fix : folds

Battle Sun -
is balanced !, and is good map. This map is on 16th place in the ranking and have 179 Games played. The area in the middle is empty, the map I wanted and so I did.
The new version of the map, the terrain is slightly changed. (Folded), and add ++++ tree
in new version I fix : folds

Battle Sun 1 vs 4
As the name suggests the game 1v4. It can never be otherwise. Just as with other maps, players will play 1V2 or 1V3, then the game is not balanced. It is balanced for 1v4 play. GUYS ! ! ! ! :( :( :(
+ folds

City of Gold - new ! tactic
fight in the Mayan City :)

Clash - new (eco)
Map is good and pretty :)

Dangerous Swamp
The area is ugly? It is a small map. I do not know what is wrong. It is well balanced.
in new version I fix : folds

Dark Rock 4P
In new version:
- fix loc players = +balanced
+ folds

Dark Rock 6P
In new version:
- fix loc players = +balanced
+ folds

Dream
+ add gold mountain, coal in loc 7 and 8
++ balanced ( ofc in new version)
in new version I fix : folds

Game of Thrones 1v1v1
bad area? I will try to improve

Game of Thrones 2 ( this map is 2v3 !! )
In new version I fix loc and gold mountin in loc 1 and.. loc .. 2? = + balanced
+ fix folds

God of Vengeance
I fix: ( in new version)
+ folds
+ add peansans and build man

HOMA I ( heroes of might and ax i )
this map is NOW good ;)
add in new version:
+ folds
+ fix loc 7 and 8
+ fix roads on all map
+ fix resources
+ small fix in area

HOMA II ( heroes of might and ax ii )
ok i fix area...
in new version: fix folds

King's Bounty
in new wersion fix:
+ folds
+ bridges
Why do players do not play in this map? I do not know !

L-O-S-T - Survival
This is a unique map. No map granary. Players must work together. One of them is closer to gold than the other. The map is well balanced. In the new version: improved folding, more helpers and builders.

Lost Lands
IMO: good map.
In new version:
+ fix folding

Monsters Islands
in new version:
++++++ improved crossing between the bridges +++++++
++ improved folding area
+ add peasans and build man ;)

Mysterious Cities ( LOST - S )
granary on this map is ON , ( normal game)
+ folding
+ fix loc players

New World Order
in new version:
very large changes on the map !!!
+ fix folding !
+ add new crossing
+ fix Loc: 1,2,3,4,7,8 !

Open World
ok I fix ( to TDL)
in new version:
+ fix folding :)
+ add more coal
+ other fix

Riversides
in new version:
+ fix folding
+ block towers :D

Roads
in new wersion:
Yes i now this map is not balanced... but I worked on this:
+ fix folding
+ fix loc 1,2 = + balanced
+ add helpers and buld man ;)

The Kingdoms
Players forget that the map was created for the game 3v3v2 or 3v3 or 3v2 with the fact that two players will always be "Czech Republic" and the other side of Polish!!
or German. Exactly this is written in the information. When we take other settings than it is written, the map will be unbalanced !!!
This map is my favorite ! big changes on the map!
In new version:
+improved location of the players
+ improved folding
+ fix area

The Passage 4P and 8p
In new version:
+ fix folding
+ add helpers and build man
+ smal fix in area

The Same Rocks ( NEW MAP ) ECO
:)

Time to Die - Gorge
In new version:
+ smal fix area
+ add tree
+ folding

Ufff
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Da Revolution

Knight

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Post 08 Aug 2012, 12:19

Re: Unpopular Multiplayer Maps

I think Stranded (4p & 8p) should be removed since no one plays it and the terrain looks really flat.
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path" - Buddha
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Lewin

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Post 08 Aug 2012, 14:21

Re: Unpopular Multiplayer Maps

Game of Thrones 2 ( this map is 2v3 !! )
In r3392 there were 6 locations. 3 of them had a massive wall of mountains with a few narrow entrances, 3 were completely exposed. That's why people keep saying it's unbalanced.
Game of Thrones 1v1v1
bad area? I will try to improve
I don't see how it's balanced when the bottom left player has to build a massive road half way across the map to get to coal. Sure he starts with 20, but he'll have a massive long road to bring the coal home and a mine in the middle of the map that can easily be destroyed by either other player and not defended.
New World Order
in new version:
very large changes on the map !!!
+ fix folding !
+ add new crossing
+ fix Loc: 1,2,3,4,7,8 !
One of your better maps IMO, and the improved version is even better. I like the way the area in the middle is raised with the cliffs around it sloping down to the sea, they look nice, like the top base in TSK 7. I don't like the forest on the area that connects the middle of the map to the top left (on yellow dirt). It doesn't look good to me, mixed tree types and uninteresting. There are large arrows painted on the ground all over the map, but I guess they're pretty subtle and don't make the map look too ugly/unnatural so I won't complain about them.
L-O-S-T - Survival
This is a unique map. No map granary. Players must work together. One of them is closer to gold than the other. The map is well balanced. In the new version: improved folding, more helpers and builders.
I think it's an interesting idea to not have storehouses. But the images you drew in the stone just look stupid IMO.
Mysterious Cities ( LOST - S )
granary on this map is ON , ( normal game)
+ folding
+ fix loc players
I don't see any point in reusing the same map as L-O-S-T - Survival. It's already used once in a unique idea, no need to use it again.
...Is good
...and is good map
Map is good and pretty :)
:rolleyes:
I think Stranded (4p & 8p) should be removed since no one plays it and the terrain looks really flat.
I think there are worse maps that should be removed first, but yes it is too flat.
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Jeronimo

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Knight

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Joined: 24 Feb 2011, 23:00

Post 08 Aug 2012, 14:28

Re: Unpopular Multiplayer Maps

The day has finally come... deciding which maps stay, which are removed.
New maps coming... and only the best of best will survive.

In my opinion, Lewin could just delete the less played maps till reach a limit.
For instance--- if you have 66 maps... then remove the 20-25 least played maps (0 or few times).

That would be deleting the unpopular... maybe you want to save some for its quality, making it an "example map" to follow and design new potential maps in future.
For instance, unpopular or not, Classy maps must stay (quality saved them).

I know To and probably "Paker's team" are making new maps.
I myself want to present a map experiment for next release (still working on it).

Offenses? All community has chosen already which maps should be played or not. Lewin has the statistics. Now it's time to make the final move. Without regreting... let's clean the long list.
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Luki

Lance Carrier

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Joined: 21 May 2012, 09:31

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Location: Poland

Post 08 Aug 2012, 14:31

Re: Unpopular Multiplayer Maps

Agree with Revo, map is very unbalanced. Left north corner locs were out of gold after 45 min( empty mines), while i had still half mine after 90.... In my opinion one of the most unbalanced maps.
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The Dark Lord

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King Karolus Servant

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Post 08 Aug 2012, 15:44

Re: Unpopular Multiplayer Maps

1000 Corpses - is balanced !
I understand it is supposed to be played 3v5, that was not what I tried to point out. My concerns are about the starting troops. Have you tested it? I think the army the 3 players have is stronger than that from the other players, so they can win straight at the beginning.
Battle Moon - is good,
The map is unique
I don't see how it is unique, and as I told you a unique map is not necessarily a good map.
Battle Sun -
is balanced !, and is good map. This map is on 16th place in the ranking and have 179 Games played. The area in the middle is empty, the map I wanted and so I did.
The new version of the map, the terrain is slightly changed. (Folded), and add ++++ tree
in new version I fix : folds
Don't worry about Battle Sun, it seems to be pretty popular so it won't be removed.
Dangerous Swamp
The area is ugly? It is a small map. I do not know what is wrong. It is well balanced.
in new version I fix : folds
Yes I think it's ugly, especially those 'grass hills' that seperate the players from the swamp.
Dream
+ add gold mountain, coal in loc 7 and 8
++ balanced ( ofc in new version)
in new version I fix : folds
What is the 'new version'?
L-O-S-T - Survival
This is a unique map. No map granary. Players must work together. One of them is closer to gold than the other. The map is well balanced. In the new version: improved folding, more helpers and builders.
I understand the principle of this map, but it's not well balanced at all. Look at player 3: where does he get gold from? The mountain at the top?
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Siegfried

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Knight

Posts: 494

Joined: 24 Jul 2009, 22:00

Post 08 Aug 2012, 16:05

Re: Unpopular Multiplayer Maps

Hey everyone,
As you've probably noticed the Remake now has a lot of included maps, and people keep submitting more and more. The list is already quite long and hard to use, so at some point we have limit the number of maps that are included, and replace old, less popular maps with new ones.
Why do you have to delete maps? The maps' size is pretty small, so I don't think there is a problem with harddisk space.

The problem is rather the list which is hard to use. It's not the maps themselves that are made. In fact, the many submitted maps are good because that's a sign of an active community.

So why not think of ways to increase the handling of the map list? I propose a ranking system with 5 stars. And - very important - the list must be shown sorted from the maps with the most stars to the one with the least stars.

In the end, you see the very good maps at the top and if you feel to play a worse map, you have to scroll down. But I think this still is better than requesting every player to download a map, restart KaM and then hopefully see that the server room isn't occupied if they want to play a map not included in the remake.

Maybe you could use the online map ranking to improve the list. The 20 frequently played maps get 3 extra stars each, so they appear at the top of the list. The list is refreshed with each release, as this means that maybe new maps may be added.
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Remake 2012

Knight

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Location: Poland

Post 08 Aug 2012, 19:48

Re: Unpopular Multiplayer Maps

Dream
+ add gold mountain, coal in loc 7 and 8
++ balanced ( ofc in new version)
in new version I fix : folds
What is the 'new version'?
New version my maps : http://tnij.org/newestpack

this is my link from my topic viewtopic.php?f=5&t=902&start=15
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Remake 2012

Knight

Posts: 475

Joined: 28 Jan 2012, 08:17

KaM Skill Level: Average

Location: Poland

Post 08 Aug 2012, 20:05

Re: Unpopular Multiplayer Maps

Game of Thrones 2 ( this map is 2v3 !! )
In r3392 there were 6 locations. 3 of them had a massive wall of mountains with a few narrow entrances, 3 were completely exposed. That's why people keep saying it's unbalanced.
The new version is at the top of only two players and at the bottom of the third :)
Game of Thrones 1v1v1
bad area? I will try to improve
I don't see how it's balanced when the bottom left player has to build a massive road half way across the map to get to coal. Sure he starts with 20, but he'll have a massive long road to bring the coal home and a mine in the middle of the map that can easily be destroyed by either other player and not defended.
ok ok I fix this :) no problem.
New World Order
in new version:
very large changes on the map !!!
+ fix folding !
+ add new crossing
+ fix Loc: 1,2,3,4,7,8 !
One of your better maps IMO, and the improved version is even better. I like the way the area in the middle is raised with the cliffs around it sloping down to the sea, they look nice, like the top base in TSK 7. I don't like the forest on the area that connects the middle of the map to the top left (on yellow dirt). It doesn't look good to me, mixed tree types and uninteresting. There are large arrows painted on the ground all over the map, but I guess they're pretty subtle and don't make the map look too ugly/unnatural so I won't complain about them.
ok :)
L-O-S-T - Survival
This is a unique map. No map granary. Players must work together. One of them is closer to gold than the other. The map is well balanced. In the new version: improved folding, more helpers and builders.
I think it's an interesting idea to not have storehouses. But the images you drew in the stone just look stupid IMO.
Through this map has additional significance ;)
Mysterious Cities ( LOST - S )
granary on this map is ON , ( normal game)
+ folding
+ fix loc players
I don't see any point in reusing the same map as L-O-S-T - Survival. It's already used once in a unique idea, no need to use it again.
Yes and no. Yes - some of the players (including me) wanted to play on this map in a normal way. But you decide.
...Is good
...and is good map
Map is good and pretty :)
:rolleyes:
Ohh Lewin Lewin :wink: :wink:

No stress. I sit on Saturday and Sunday on maps. I'll work all day. I improved everything that is wrong.
new fix map I seny You and TDL :) Bye
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Lewin

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KaM Remake Developer

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Location: Australia

Post 08 Aug 2012, 22:24

Re: Unpopular Multiplayer Maps

The problem is rather the list which is hard to use. It's not the maps themselves that are made. In fact, the many submitted maps are good because that's a sign of an active community.

So why not think of ways to increase the handling of the map list? I propose a ranking system with 5 stars. And - very important - the list must be shown sorted from the maps with the most stars to the one with the least stars.

In the end, you see the very good maps at the top and if you feel to play a worse map, you have to scroll down. But I think this still is better than requesting every player to download a map, restart KaM and then hopefully see that the server room isn't occupied if they want to play a map not included in the remake.

Maybe you could use the online map ranking to improve the list. The 20 frequently played maps get 3 extra stars each, so they appear at the top of the list. The list is refreshed with each release, as this means that maybe new maps may be added.
We've considered a ranking system, but I think it would lead to people only playing high ranked maps and many maps not being played only because they have a low ranking. I mean if I start a lobby and select a map with only 1 star, everyone will say they don't want to play that map because it has a low ranking. Because we have hundreds of maps I think some of them will end up with low ranking even if they are very good maps, because people don't know about them or forget about them. I'd rather give all maps an equal chance.

We've already made the list bigger and sorted (with name, size and player count columns) so it can handle a few more maps before it becomes hard to use. But at some point there must be a limit, nobody wants to scroll through 200+ low quality maps to find a good one to play.

If we felt we had 200 excellent quality maps we would be much more hesitant to delete any, the point is that in the past we were somewhat "desperate" for new maps because we didn't have many. Now we have hundreds and people seem quite happy playing on only ~20 of them regularly. There are maps in r3392 that have been played less than 10 times, while Golden Cliffs has been played 100 times more.

We also want to have a "minimum quality standard" for being included in the Remake. If we included every map that is made it would make the Remake look bad because many of them are poorly done with not much effort put into them. It makes the game look bad visually if most of the maps are flat, mostly grass with few objects/details. Some of the maps included are badly balanced, have worse looking terrain than other maps and have only been played a handful of times. I think it makes sense to slowly phase out these maps as we add new good quality maps. We're not just going to delete 50 maps overnight, I think maybe 5-10 maps will be deleted for the next release and more than that number will be added. We certainly don't want to delete any popular or high quality maps.
Game of Thrones 2 ( this map is 2v3 !! )
In r3392 there were 6 locations. 3 of them had a massive wall of mountains with a few narrow entrances, 3 were completely exposed. That's why people keep saying it's unbalanced.
The new version is at the top of only two players and at the bottom of the third :)
Yes, but my problem is that you left the map like that originally, and didn't consider that it might be unbalanced to have 3vs3 where one team has no defences and the other has lots. Most of your maps feel rushed, untested and with balance not really considered until someone points out the massive flaws. Look at the way To (Leeuwgie) makes his maps: He makes one map, plays it many many times with his friends until everything is well balanced and tested, playing several times on each location. He spends a huge amount of time making the maps look good with details and elevation. He writes a post about the map on the forum with a full description about it, which people comment on. He doesn't make/release another map until he's happy that his first one is perfect. His two maps (Back in the Desert and Arctic Warfare) have each been played more than all of your 20+ maps combined, so I think it shows that putting a lot of effort into a few excellent maps is better than spamming 20-30 maps without thoroughly testing them.
He wrote about his process of making Back in the Desert here if you're interested. I think it's a good guide.
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vovets1

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Sword Fighter

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Location: Russia

Post 09 Aug 2012, 05:45

Re: Unpopular Multiplayer Maps

Please do not remove the atoll and kaderto. This are  good old maps, which is sometimes played. And by the way, and that if the players do not like such and such card, the player then why not just remove it from the folder MapsMP? She disappears from the search, and the player is not on any map will play in which he considers bad.
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Jeronimo

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Knight

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Joined: 24 Feb 2011, 23:00

Post 09 Aug 2012, 05:55

Re: Unpopular Multiplayer Maps

Please do not remove the atoll and kaderto. This are  good old maps, which is sometimes played. And by the way, and that if the players do not like such and such card, the player then why not just remove it from the folder MapsMP? She disappears from the search, and the player is not on any map will play in which he considers bad.
I actually did this 1 week ago... my Map List is really shorter now... about 20 maps, the only ones I would play.
But for adding new maps into Remake, I agree there are so many useless maps and even repeated...

I saw for instance, 2 versions of Florek's Map (old and new) "Save the King" and dont remember the other... and 3 versions from "New Year", the map made by PAKER (+folding -> +improved folding -> fixed folding). :o
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sado1

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Post 09 Aug 2012, 07:30

Re: Unpopular Multiplayer Maps

I am also reluctant about Kaderto being deleted, because it's one of my favourite maps, but I understand that hardly anyone agrees with me :( Some balanced version of it wouldn't be bad (maybe just deleting one of the north-west locations would be enough?).

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