Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

[pawel95]

- Warfare in the Wilderness 8P
- The Passage 8P
- Game of Thrones 2
- Stranded 8P
- Oasis Struggle
- Battle Moon
- L-O-S-T Survival
- Frozen Canyons
- The Northern Province
- Lost Lands

I agree also mostly but not for the map: "The Northern Province"! About the 8pl version of Warfare i t W. I´am not sure. I havent played it often to judge it, but the 4p versions looks pretty well for me.

[The Dark Lord]

- Warfare in the Wilderness 8P
- The Passage 8P
- Game of Thrones 2
- Stranded 8P
- Oasis Struggle
- Battle Moon
- L-O-S-T Survival
- Frozen Canyons
- The Northern Province
- Lost Lands

I agree also mostly but not for the map: "The Northern Province"! About the 8pl version of Warfare i t W. I´am not sure. I havent played it often to judge it, but the 4p versions looks pretty well for me.

Why not The Northern Province if I may ask?

[Ben]

My List:
1000 corpses - Almost a clone of bad mountains; which is already more popular
Alice - needs some rebalancing; not necessary to delete, but Thunder needs to do some touchups on his maps/ remove some before he pumps out more
Bannockunburn - Most of the map was made by ugly copy/paste large parts. Terrible gameplay
Battle Sun 1v4 - As said before, I don't like duplicates of maps.
Battle Moon - Unpopular and yet another unbalanced map. Paker needs to do touchups before he adds more maps.
Besieged - Unpopular map that is terribly buggy. Author put little work into it.
Blitzkrieg - With PT added to the Remake, this map is no longer needed. It's now just a camping map anyway.
Boarderlands - Unbalanced! The name isn't even spelled right...
Dream - Nothing on this map makes sense. it's like something out of a dream Every player has different starting resources for no apparent explanation.
Europe - It's a cool design, but not playable. Nobody has enough building space and players are way too close to each other.
Forest Fight - No balance whatsoever.
Frozen Canyons - Very unpopular.
Game of Thrones (both) - Obviously I think a duplicate should be removed, but the map in general is unpopular.
God of vengeance - Too many of these camping gorge maps. C'mon, how can these be fun?
Golden Cliffs - Just kidding
In Hell - Unbalanced map
Kaderto - Unbalanced.
King`s Bounty - Not popular
L-O-S-T - The map doesn't really work
Dark Rock - A bad clone of TSR
Lake Wololo - Ugly map that is one big camp-map
Oasis Struggle - I rebalanced this map, but I don't like it so I'm not going to upload it. Boot it.


That's all for now. I'll pick up later. Also, I'm not sure about the "unpopular" maps, because TSR is a very unbalanced map, but it is popular so I think it should stay; therefore, I think that it is strange to boot someone's map without people giving it a chance.
Also, Authors need to be contacted before giving them the boot

[pawel95]

I wanna only post one battle map for now Because its really annoying that its that hard unbalanced that normaly the guy with the city CANNOT win this game :

"Mercenary Inavasion" The idea is nice, but need as fast as possible a rebalancing ("You cant win vs a horde of barbs" )

[thunder]

Hi!
i dont think necesarry to delete any maps...Still i havent seen or opened the most mapos...
camping on the maps??? common--- not the maps are camping and camping isnt the maps fault....the players are camping! of course it is part of the game....
if a player always attack before the enemy could start his attack... then the player will always say : my enemies are campers, just sitting in his *** on his base...

a map can be less played not because unplayable or bad or unpopular etc...

Its hard to say this and this maps are bad, wrong or dont need for the game. If delete a TSK coop map, maybe will delete Annamária's favourite map. Okay she will download again.


I like this long list. And hope it will be longer with better and better maps!!!
Anyway if a player feel that his map list is too long, just delete personaly!!!!...(I have just 17versions from boarder rivers just 9 version from across, just 6 version of abrak and i can tell this list until next weekend )

So delete everybody personaly...If somebody wants to play only one map and this is end of the list, just delete the all other, and then he has only one map...

I think this Maplist problem smaller than other...

t


PS:
28 maps are above 1%, and i dont think we would like to delete lot others...

and about the list...
sometimes the players are playing 1v1 ont those maps...and those list are really subjective...
and have to think on the fun players also...


[And Ben on your list the most maps are played more times than Original Boarder River 8P ]

[Ben]

Well it was just a quick list. If all the maps that I listed are removed, there'd be some problems indeed. I was just hoping to discuss them a bit.

[The Dark Lord]

I completely disagree with Thunder. Removing maps will be of no harm for anyone, since installers don't overwrite the folder and you will still have all maps unless you delete them yourself. The problem is: if I delete 30 maps, the next time I install a next version of Remake, they will simply be added again.
So for me it works the other way around: add maps for yourself if you want.

[Siegfried]

My List:
Bannockunburn - Most of the map was made by ugly copy/paste large parts. Terrible gameplay

Nope, not a single item was copied/pasted. It was entirely made by hand - except the heights, but read on.

Please understand that it was intended as a concept map to a) propose the idea of heightmaps and b) improve the idea of a "story" for a map. See -> http://knightsandmerchants.net/forum/vi ... ?f=5&t=762 (the heightmap tutorial is here: http://knightsandmerchants.net/forum/vi ... ?f=5&t=761 )

If you want to delete it, I won't be mad. But I write this text to avoid that it is deleted because of the wrong reasons. When you look at the story, you see why the optics are different and why the gameplay isn't exactly planned to be fair. It's a map for the imagination.

btw: it's on rank 68 of 585 in the last stable release with almost 100 matches, so some people seem to like it

[Ben]

Well I just think that the gameplay can be improved by linking units together. I know why it was done, but I think that it isn't good for mechanical reasons.
Sorry, that I was mistaken on copy/paste. I'm abased.
If others agree with you, Siegfried, then the map should live on as it is

[thunder]

Okay this is idea topic.
What do you think about when the player install the Remake, then can select the maps what he would like. The four mainly category and some sub category....etc)
Specially i never played the single maps, and coop maps, and i never opened in the editor also.
So how in many program installer can select functions, here also can select what would you like....
Hm?
Or can select one by one ...
just an installer option.
And this is just an idea. and good for everybody:)

Be fair, be collector XD

[The Dark Lord]

But how, if you install Remake for the first time, would you have any idea what maps you want to install...?

[thunder]

Why not?
When you install first any program how do you know which part will you need?
this is the same.
You can use the top list for example categories:(and just an example)
-Multi maps
-coops
_ABC
-battles
-ABC
-specials
-ABC
-buildings
-ABC...
-Single maps
-ABC
-Campaigns
-ABC

or if use the toplist
-All maps
-Top60 maps
.Top20 maps
-Top10maps
-Map top
...
-Only single maps...

Or
Game maps
Logic maps
Fun maps
Artist maps
Troll maps
XD
okay the last section was joke;P


i think it could work, anyway the player will need map for multigama, he will download from kamremake.com, or install them again...
or the lobby download the maplist from kamremake.com, where always the latest updated maps are founded...and then dont need to copy the newest versions...

but really, these are just an idea..

good nigh!
t

[Lewin]

@Siegfried: I had some good fun playing on Bannockburn in the early days, I seem to remember it was balanced okay (I certainly remember both sides winning often enough). But yeah the terrain is a bit ugly.

Removing maps will be of no harm for anyone, since installers don't overwrite the folder and you will still have all maps unless you delete them yourself. The problem is: if I delete 30 maps, the next time I install a next version of Remake, they will simply be added again.
So for me it works the other way around: add maps for yourself if you want.

Actually the installer deletes files which were removed, so if you install and early version and patch it you'll get the same result as if you installed the latest version directly.

Why not?
When you install first any program how do you know which part will you need?
this is the same.
You can use the top list for example categories:(and just an example)

...then half of the time when you just a lobby you get the message "You don't have this map" and no way to fix it, because somebody else checked different options when installing. Most people won't be able to play with each other any more. Nobody will be able to play any more. Also, the vast majority of people will have no idea which options to check when installing, they don't know what kind of maps they like yet. We're definitely not doing this. There will be one official Remake map list, and we do want to keep it a bit neat and clean by removing the maps that have clear balance and quality issues and have only been played 10-20 times in 8 months. When we have 150 maps on the list, why would anyone want us to keep low quality, poorly balanced and unpopular maps? It's better to keep the list a bit clean.

[Ben]

I want to clarify my intentions of my post on which maps need fixing. At work today, I spent a lot of time thinking about how much I regret posting that. I didn't mean that the authors of those maps are terrible map makers, or that the maps need to be removed (other than duplicates). I just think, in my humble opinion, those maps have things that need/should/could be improved. The authors should be contacted of this. If they don't respond that's okay: leave the map. Some maps; however, are poor enough that they should be removed altogether if the author doesn't respond.

I'm sincerely sorry if I offended anyone with this list.

[Menszu]

Completly off topic from the maps, I'd like to share a radical ideas (as always, but someone has to)

First of all, if there's something I love in a game is a lot of tactical options. Not sure how many of you are familiar with Total War series however I'll use them as a example.
In Medieval 2, there was ... let's say around 250-300 units in around 15 factions. The problem is in multiplayer most of the time 2 factions were used - Papal States and Scotland, and of those huge variety of units only 10% was used - most of the time the same ones (ony cost-effective)
And in Shogun 2, many people were moaning - meh... all the japs have the same units. There's only around 20 of them. But hey! I see each and every one of them on the field performing their role in multiplayer.

Now i KaM, we have like... 9 units. With only nine, two almost unusable hurt my feelings. And altough shield patch in my eyes was best thing that happened to this game since Remake itself, we gained axeman and swordsman in favor of lancecarrier. (good deal btw)
Now, how about... lovering the price of a spear to 1 wood? It's only used for lancecarriers, and in most cases we're short in leather vests rather than lances.
This might encourage fielding some of them, still I don't think it'll be abusive in any way since achers and axeman would still be better investment imho. But... maybe someone with a lot of leather and less wood might find them atractive alternative.

And since I'm throwing unorthodoxal ideas, let's go further - Scout and Vagabond.

First of all - moving Vagabond to the barracs - on the 1st page it's signed as possible - so... how about we discuss it? It's an easy way to add a unit which isn't out of place AND it wouldn't require introduction of any new weapons. It's just a recruit, pony and axe, simple as that.

And here to another point - since horsies are so expensive, that it's a waste to field them with Scouts rather than Knights - why would anyone field a Vagabond?
Well....there's no point. However - here it comes - how about two kinds of horsie? Horse for Scout (and possibly Vagabond) and a Warhorse for Knights.
There are few ways of implementing those:
A. Buttons in the stable (like woodcoutter) swithing horse breeding.
B. Breeding both kinds on demand like weapons.
C. Training horses into warhorses in the stable on demand.
D. Hoses from stable (cheaper than now) will have to go through training in other building.
The whole idea requires:
- going quite away from the orginal.
- creating a new ware, and changing the serf sprite.
- fortress and storehouse need splace for one more ware.

And benefits going with it: (which might be bit to few)
- More cavalry on the field - finally also scouts.
- More lance/pike units in the result.


So, I made three points here, and want you to look at them separetly.
- Cheaper lances
- Vagabond - what of it?
- Cheaper horse, and implementation of warhorse for knights (warhorse demand the current amount of corn)

Now I can rest in peace : D