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Re: Changes to market values in the RC
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2012, 10:46
by sado1
What about blocking the market before some late building is built (but I don't know which one would make sense, Metallurgist makes sense as gold and trading sounds much alike... but it's way too early)
Or block trading for trunks, before the player has built 6-8 woodcutters? A very controversial idea, I know it... but imagine how well would it force everyone to make a good wood production. It has one major flaw though: maps like The Cracked Land, where you have to make market to trade for trunks, because there's no place for woodcutters but really much of non-renewable resources.
I know these ideas are far from being perfect, but I still post them in hope that someone will make them better.
Re: Changes to market values in the RC
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2012, 11:17
by Bo_
Lol sado why would you need a market then?
If you can play a loc without woodcutters and you don't run out of coal then it's because the mapmaker did a bad job. (Or it's the way he wanted it to be.)
Normaly you need to trade some trunks the time your woodcutters finished planting there trees, but if you do it for the whole game you will quickly run out of coal, so no gold, no iron.
Re: Changes to market values in the RC
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2012, 11:34
by Mulberry
Lewin, i am afraid of suggesting things about market because i realised that lots of my strategies were based on using marketplace in a different ways. And , honestly it was same for everyone who played really well. So now i think i should show you the facts and analize my expirience in a simple way so we all together can find out a reasonable solution.
What are the most popular courses now?
Current anfair values:
iron/gold ore/coal - tree truncks, grain
iron bar - tree truncks
iron bar - horses
iron bar - skins
coal - everithing
We had a little discussion with Florek and Romek yesterday on TS on this topic. Florek was absolutly against market, he said it should be removed. While Romek stayed an opposite and said there is no choice to balance locations and resources on some maps without it (Across the Desert is a huge example). What else Romek said is that players who doesnt use market is just those who doesnt now how to use it. And yes, thats true, we have so BIG advantage agaisnst players who doesnt use it. When i began to use market as they are i was so much impressed with how my economie improved.
So i see 2 important consequences of marketplace removing or changing cources to a higher lines:
- Game will last longer, in my expirience it is 5-7 minuts. Longer pt...
- Lots of maps, specialy original wont be playable without deep fixes, detailed and constructive analizis.
- Dissapointed players
In my opinion removing a marketplace is a very bad solution...
Re: Changes to market values in the RC
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2012, 11:50
by T*AnTi-V!RuZz
You know, in some way it surprises me there aren't any maps that are aiming at the use of a market. For example, don't have any gold mountains on a certain location. That person is forced to use the market. But it could be stone too, or anything else. It doesn't even have to be for a certain location, it could be left out on the entire map..
Re: Changes to market values in the RC
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2012, 13:49
by sado1
Lol sado why would you need a market then?
If you can play a loc without woodcutters and you don't run out of coal then it's because the mapmaker did a bad job. (Or it's the way he wanted it to be.)
Normaly you need to trade some trunks the time your woodcutters finished planting there trees, but if you do it for the whole game you will quickly run out of coal, so no gold, no iron.
I meant, on Cracked Land, you can't make more than 3-4 woodcutters at some locs, because half of the loc is coal and another half is needed for your buildings (farms...). It looks like it was intended to be market-abused.
Re: Changes to market values in the RC
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2012, 15:56
by vovets1
I turn to the Dark Lord. Andreus suggested this idea: you bought 20 logs, and the price increases several times. Buy logs for 1 coal, now you will buy for 3 coal. After buying 50 more logs price increase, etc. But to buy sausages for example you can on the normal price, and so, while you can not buy 20 sausages. Then the market will not have to remove
Re: Changes to market values in the RC
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2012, 16:52
by Jeronimo
Market is a must in many maps with little space for forests, or little gold/coal, or small stone mountains.
It allows a match to continue to infinite -> this is something we should all be grateful.
It also allows you to recover from a crisis or stupidity... but it needs a flow of constant serfs exchanging resources, and it is not good to do it in a prolongued period of time... sometimes is not even a fair exchange. Market is allright.
Re: Changes to market values in the RC
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2012, 17:00
by vovets1
This is a bad maps, for which few resources. Here for example the border river 4р.
They are a lot of resources, and the fans play in 120 minutes PT choose it. And Back in the desert havent much resourse, and it is unbalansed, therefore it is a bad map.
And ask me to consider a proposed idea.
Re: Changes to market values in the RC
PostPosted: 10 Oct 2012, 18:15
by The Dark Lord
What else Romek said is that players who doesnt use market is just those who doesnt now how to use it.
This is completely ridiculous. The other way around, I could say that people who use the marketplace don't know how to play REAL KaM.
@Everyone and especially Sado: I disagree that it is impossible to play without market on some maps. It is always possible, on some maps it is just harder. On The Cracked Land I played the loc with the least trees and I was totally fine thanks to some early woodcutters. But building them takes much time (and timber) and THAT is where the market makes a lot of difference.
I turn to the Dark Lord. Andreus suggested this idea: you bought 20 logs, and the price increases several times. Buy logs for 1 coal, now you will buy for 3 coal. After buying 50 more logs price increase, etc. But to buy sausages for example you can on the normal price, and so, while you can not buy 20 sausages. Then the market will not have to remove
Well it would be an improvement but still not ideal. 2 or 3 coal for a tree trunk is still cheap imo.
Re: Changes to market values in the RC
PostPosted: 11 Oct 2012, 14:33
by vovets1
ok =) Then you can after buying 20 things x5 price, after 50 х10 if you think that the х3 and х5 are not enough.
Re: Changes to market values in the RC
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2012, 02:19
by Leeuwgie
This is completely ridiculous. The other way around, I could say that people who use the marketplace don't know how to play REAL KaM.
It's true, players abuse the market and it's getting worse. The market wasn't in the original game for a reason. I'm not 100% against using the market like TDL but it takes away skill and strategy if the whole build concentrates around your market usage. I won't have a problem with it if the market would be removed from the game.
Re: Changes to market values in the RC
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2012, 05:05
by Krom
How about ramping up the prices and locking out renewable resources? Or maybe even lock out everything except Stone IronOre Coal GoldOre?
Re: Changes to market values in the RC
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2012, 05:40
by vovets1
How about ramping up the prices and locking out renewable resources? Or maybe even lock out everything except Stone IronOre Coal GoldOre?
Just did the first version, I propose, and I vote for him.
Re: Changes to market values in the RC
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2012, 08:20
by The Dark Lord
Or maybe even lock out everything except Stone IronOre Coal GoldOre?
That's actually a good solution. It would make the market useful for the only thing it should be used for: to trade resources you might run out of. I think you should be able to trade everything, but only get stone, coal, iron ore or gold ore in return. That has always been my vision about the market; a building to trade resources you otherwise wouldn't have anymore. I could totally live with this, if I build a market (yes I do sometimes because I have to) it is for this purpose and nothing else.
Re: Changes to market values in the RC
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2012, 08:49
by Da Revolution
When those items are locked I won't even build a market anymore and I think I'm not the only one. Resources that are running out is almost never an issue for me.
I'm not a real market (ab)user, only a maximum of about 20 trades most of the time. So if you decide to change something I don't really mind
