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Re: Show how many people of each kind are needed.
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2013, 22:11
by The Dark Lord
I think Krom thinks a bit further ahead than some people here. And eric_theodore_c, please watch your tongue. We would not want this topic to get out of hand, would we? No swearing, keep it nice, don't reply to this post (that would be off-topic) and behave. If you want to swear you can always pm me, my inbox welcomes messages of any kind. Thanks.
Re: Show how many people of each kind are needed.
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2013, 06:34
by Krom
@Eric: I did not mean to upset you. I hope you see in my answers that game speed is not a justification to add features, so it's just out of the question.
These ideas have been proposed several times already and got declined. Showing in red and in green looks like an additional clutter to already cluttered UI. There's already info needed to calculate that - summing 3 numbers and comparing it with 4th is not such a big deal.
Re: Show how many people of each kind are needed.
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2013, 13:34
by eric_theodore_c
actually it is 6 numbers
Re: Show how many people of each kind are needed.
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2013, 15:25
by pawel95
Excuse me, but what is your problem? I just said that in higher game speeds such things like "coloring numbers" up could be easier, but it´s not needed, because thats the - point at high gamespeeds.
Thats why I wrote also that in x1 games you will never need sth like that, because
Even when someone can't find at normal speeds, time to calc, like krom said, you get a message, which not many other games have also.
I just explained normaly, why you don´t need it and I said many times that KaM has one of the best "Tables" in that kind of games, so it is already a big help for the player and it should be enough.
BTW the Table got be fixed at least one time, so its even more structured than it was in TPR. In TPR you have already to take more time to "calc" these numbers...
Re: Show how many people of each kind are needed.
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2013, 04:19
by Ben
Yeah I don't understand what the problem is with this idea. I haven't seen a single counter-argument for it. People are always just vaguely interpreting their own variation of my/theodore's posts.
I don't find it too much of a trouble to let players process statistics values and analyze them. And if player skips that - there are notifications about unoccupied houses.
With this logic, we could just go back to the layout of TPR, or just mess the thing up entirely, like putting miners next to farms or recruits next to vineyards. The colored numbers are about making the graph easier to read. How, exactly, is this bad?
summing 3 numbers and comparing it with 4th is not such a big deal.
Yes, it is. Espically on x2.5 when I have 8 miners, 3 coal mines under construction 1 gold mine, 1 gold mine under construction, 2 iron mines, 1 depleted iron mine, 3 depleted coal mines, etc. It's a mess and I don't want to spend 10 seconds (x2.5=25 game seconds) trying to figure it out.
Re: Show how many people of each kind are needed.
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2013, 07:03
by Krom
@Ben: Counter arguments:
1. UI clutter. Christmas is soon, but I doubt it will look fit into KaM Remake to have a Christmas tree in stats (shining with red-green sparkles)
2. Poor arguments FOR it. I see nothing wrong in summing few numbers and comparing that to 4th number.
3. It's a half-solution. Red or Green does not tell how many is needed. Perhaps to improve further it would make better sense to redesign the whole thing instead of pouring patches on it.
4. Conservatism. It was fine in 1998 and we improved it within existing boundaries.
5. @Ben specifically: Game is still designed around x1. Speeds higher than x1 are there to make games shorter and playing harder. If we were to change that we would rename x2 -> x1 and x1 -> x0.5 etc. If you select x2.5 you picked a challenge for yourself - you are the one to face it.
Let's not drive into extremes

Re: Show how many people of each kind are needed.
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2013, 14:00
by Ben
I don't see it as clutter. It's normal for games/ real life to write things in red to show a lack of something (like money). On that note, perhaps to make it more clear, we could add a negative sign to show how many citizens behind you are, or add a plus sign to show how many citizens ahead you are?
Also, we both know randoms aren't going to play x1 speed anymore, so no, I don't have a choice. Maybe it's because you don't actualy play the game, or maybe it's because of how bad I am at quick arithmetic, but it IS a big deal to spend precious time staring at the graph.
Re: Show how many people of each kind are needed.
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2013, 15:31
by The Dark Lord
I agree with Krom this time, and not even because of reason 4 he mentioned.

A complete redesign would indeed be better if we really want this; in the mean time just add numbers and compare (or make sure you have enough food so nobody dies!

).
Re: Show how many people of each kind are needed.
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2013, 21:31
by Ben
I'm really surprised so many people disagree! Still, no matter, I am not going to kick a dead horse, and this isn't game breaking or anything. I will continue to merely rage as I waste reading the graph

Re: Show how many people of each kind are needed.
PostPosted: 11 Dec 2013, 22:55
by RandomLyrics
i think the good idea will be smth like that: whenever your houses lack of occupant , the game gives small note next to 'house/worker' in the table.

Re: Show how many people of each kind are needed.
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2013, 08:32
by pawel95
I still see no need to make that. Btw that would maybe even confuse players. You often make a forester before the foresterhouse is ready. Later in game when you have e.g. problems with gold, you made already that guy, he is in the list of the school but the table says "lack". Zhat just bring nearly the same result like the message "house is not occupied" which is already, i say it again, an additional feature of kam, to help the player. Many other games haven't even a (clear) notification system like kam has. You should be happy about that
We are moving in a circle. I will tell you again that it isn't hard to sum up 3 numbers zo onr number, or to watch, where it says "lack"
