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Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2015, 10:41
by Esthlos
But that's just the way I see it and I thought this was the proposed system.
It
is this.
Of course, the numbers would need to be tweaked more in order to make it so... but since a user clearly stated he wouldn't like the system to be changed even if the numbers were right, and since
Krom stated that he'd consider applying this change only if everybody agreed with it, then it's impossible that this will ever happen, and thus I'm no longer working on improving it.
Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2015, 18:03
by Ben
Game speed right now is split between economy and fighting. Using lobby to change the speed at any given time does not sounds like an improvement, more like a patch for "allow to change game speed freely during the match"
Exactly how is that not an improvement? It couldn't possibly make the game worse. Most RTS games you can change the speed whenever. I would find it very useful, especially in private games.
I mean if you don't want to code it that's fine. But don't say that it is a bad idea
Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2015, 05:53
by Krom
@Ben: Let's try it from the top. Our goal is to keep the game interesting roughly by compressing DPM (decisions per minute) in boring parts and stretching DPM in busy times. Changing game speed at any given time is our tool to do so. That works well in SP. In MP that might be more troublesome, because there are several players and their DPM can be very different at times. This is what we need to solve. For now we agreed on peacetime requiring less DPM and allow to set game speed in PT and after PT separately.
Setting game speed for the next N min after return from lobby, allows to return to lobby at any time and set the speed higher/lower. Then return to the game. This sounds like a half-measure to a more simple "set game speed from in-game".
Or am I getting it wrong and the idea was meant for something else? What is the typical use scenario of it? What is it special in those any N minutes after returning to the game from lobby (at any game stage) that they need a different game speed?
Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2015, 16:22
by RandomLyrics
Hehe maybe dynamic speed, in pt based on house number, after pt based on army count ;D - funny idea, but i think hard to implement.
Hm i dont think the game speed change option after returning to lobbby is necessary, there 2 speed type (pt and after ) and i think its enough. In very few scenarios ull want to change the speed during game. ( example, lower the speed when players reach big army count for good micro ). It will be cool to know most usefull scenarios for that option, to consider the problem well
Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2015, 16:46
by Ben
@Ben: Let's try it from the top. Our goal is to keep the game interesting roughly by compressing DPM (decisions per minute) in boring parts and stretching DPM in busy times. Changing game speed at any given time is our tool to do so. That works well in SP. In MP that might be more troublesome, because there are several players and their DPM can be very different at times. This is what we need to solve. For now we agreed on peacetime requiring less DPM and allow to set game speed in PT and after PT separately.
Setting game speed for the next N min after return from lobby, allows to return to lobby at any time and set the speed higher/lower. Then return to the game. This sounds like a half-measure to a more simple "set game speed from in-game".
Or am I getting it wrong and the idea was meant for something else? What is the typical use scenario of it? What is it special in those any N minutes after returning to the game from lobby (at any game stage) that they need a different game speed?
The idea was primarily aimed at exactly as you interpreted it, but more importantly I do not think you should limit the freedom of choice the players have unless you have to. Right now, you have blocked players from being able to change the speed settings in the lobby. (Heck, even PT should be adjustable if the mechanics of the game allows it. But let's not focus on that for now.) Why should this be blocked? I see no benefit to it?
Example:
Perhaps myself and three other players(4p) have decided to play a game on 2x speed. After 30 minutes, I get a phone call and have to leave. Da Revo is on TS and says that he will replace me, but Revo doesn't like 2x speed and the other 3 guys don't mind going to 1x. However, the Remake will not let us make this decision. Now Revo will not replace and the game is ruined because of some unnecessarily blocked feature.
Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2015, 11:44
by Krom
@Ben: Let's try it from the top. Our goal is to keep the game interesting roughly by compressing DPM (decisions per minute) in boring parts and stretching DPM in busy times. Changing game speed at any given time is our tool to do so. That works well in SP. In MP that might be more troublesome, because there are several players and their DPM can be very different at times. This is what we need to solve. For now we agreed on peacetime requiring less DPM and allow to set game speed in PT and after PT separately.
Setting game speed for the next N min after return from lobby, allows to return to lobby at any time and set the speed higher/lower. Then return to the game. This sounds like a half-measure to a more simple "set game speed from in-game".
Or am I getting it wrong and the idea was meant for something else? What is the typical use scenario of it? What is it special in those any N minutes after returning to the game from lobby (at any game stage) that they need a different game speed?
The idea was primarily aimed at exactly as you interpreted it, but more importantly I do not think you should limit the freedom of choice the players have unless you have to. Right now, you have blocked players from being able to change the speed settings in the lobby. (Heck, even PT should be adjustable if the mechanics of the game allows it. But let's not focus on that for now.) Why should this be blocked? I see no benefit to it?
Example:
Perhaps myself and three other players(4p) have decided to play a game on 2x speed. After 30 minutes, I get a phone call and have to leave. Da Revo is on TS and says that he will replace me, but Revo doesn't like 2x speed and the other 3 guys don't mind going to 1x. However, the Remake will not let us make this decision. Now Revo will not replace and the game is ruined because of some unnecessarily blocked feature.
If what I said above is what you meant, then speedup after return from lobby is indeed a half-measure. Full measure would be to allow to change speedup at any given moment in that game. Then we should discuss it.
Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2015, 16:38
by Ben
I'm not sure about this "full/half measure" thing is appropriate. I think PT, itself, is a half-measure to a decent "no rush' game. I think returning to lobby to change speed is a perfectly reasonable solution: No worse than PT, itself, for sure.
However, to entertain the idea of changing the speed in game...how would we do that? Have a vote? That's terrible imo. Lobby would be much better. Only the host can change speed? Abuse. And everyone would want to be host because of that huge advantage. Have everyone able to change speed? I've had that become a problem in games where there is no "generally accepted" game speed. In private rooms this wouldn't be a problem, but in public ones this could be chaos since the desired game speed varies from 2x-3x (another reason why we shouldn't have speeds higher than 2x but that's not important now). I think this would actually be the best option for changing speed in game if lock speed is a possible option, but I still think that the speed should be changeable in lobby wither way (and still think it is cthe best method)
Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2015, 16:00
by Everstill
However, to entertain the idea of changing the speed in game...how would we do that? Have a vote? That's terrible imo. Lobby would be much better. Only the host can change speed? Abuse. And everyone would want to be host because of that huge advantage. Have everyone able to change speed? I've had that become a problem in games where there is no "generally accepted" game speed.
Make the initial speed a option in the Lobby, for example, 2x. In game, people can change in the options the speed they want, for example, 3 guy are playing a game, the initial speed is 2x, if ALL of them change the options to a given speed, e.g. 1x, the speed is changed, otherwise it will remain 2x. (it can have a leaderboard with the speed that the player choose). "but in public people can troll saying they want 3x and will revert for fights but then they do not revert", you can make a system that, after the speed is changed, from 2x to 3x for example, if a player change his option to a different one than the rest of the players, after N minutes the speed will be reseted to the initial lobby value until the players agree in a value again.
I think a system like this is fair, good for everyone, easy to use and prevent abuses.
Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2015, 18:31
by Ben
That's why too complicated.
Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2015, 21:38
by thunder
Disable messages from spectators.
There are lots of annoying messages and maybe kibices can help to other players.
Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2015, 09:49
by Esthlos
maybe kibices can help to other players.
Are you worried about spectators telling your enemies about your unexplored base?
If so, in League of Legends they solved this problem by making spectators able to watch the game only up to a few minutes before the current point in the game.
Though, I doubt this would work in KaM...
Maybe spectators should be able to join at any time during the game after peacetime ended; at that point they receive the replay of the game up to that point and are able to view it while it is still being recorded.
Would this work?
Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2015, 10:01
by thunder
I mean on soamming a players with false messages all the time. It can be annoying for some players.
Anyway I dont worry about to a spec tell anything about my city because this is a small community ...
it is just a good reason to set this disabling messages from spectators or from other players. If somebody would like to send message to somebody will see if you are inactive because he cant select your name from the list for example. This means the chat is disabled to the inactive player.
Some players like to play in peace and quiet to listen the forest's noise to hear the bows when thats fired out:)
Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2015, 17:26
by Ben
Attention users:
I have updated the opening post for this topic. I will try to keep it somewhat updated from now on. If you believe an update is needed and it isn't being implemented, please send me a PM.
~Ben
Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic
PostPosted: 18 Feb 2015, 21:37
by Ben
Krom, Lewin, what are you guys thinking about hotkeys nowadays? KaM Remake will never be "finished" until we have hotkey support imo. For now, I would like to say that it will be nice if the F1-F4 hotkeys worked while in the menus. For example, I cannot access the build menu via hotkey while in the settings menu...and believe it or not, this very annoying when you are used to using F1 to quickly place a road to prevent a laborer from running across town to help build a woodcutter
Another thing that was "accepted" once upon a time but never heard from again is friend/foe color support. Since there are many similar colors in the Remake (gold and yellow are worst offenders) and my display isn't the best, I have a very hard time telling some colors apart.
Re: Official KaM Remake Ideas topic
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2015, 05:10
by Krom
Customizable hotkeys are on our todo list. F1-F4 sounds more like a bug, does it occur only for depths of Settings menu?
Friend/Foe colors for minimap is in todo list IIRC.