Knights and Merchants.net Forum

PostPosted: **26 Dec 2011, 20:45**

This whole discussion is going WAY too far. I won't even give my opinion about all ideas because I feel I would only be repeating myself and I think Lewin feels the same. People pop up and post ideas that have already been dealt with. I can understand that they don't read the whole topic because it is way too much to read; perhaps we should make a new topic with clear rules. I feel we're drowning in a pool of useless/chanceless ideas and we won't be able to find the good ideas among all bad ones.

PostPosted: **26 Dec 2011, 21:24**

This whole discussion is going WAY too far. I won't even give my opinion about all ideas because I feel I would only be repeating myself and I think Lewin feels the same. People pop up and post ideas that have already been dealt with. I can understand that they don't read the whole topic because it is way too much to read; perhaps we should make a new topic with clear rules. I feel we're drowning in a pool of useless/chanceless ideas and we won't be able to find the good ideas among all bad ones.

Well, I thought this topic was meant to discuss ideas, though I can understand your point completely.

Maybe an idea to make for each idea a topic... But thinking of that, you should make a complete new forum for it I think.

Once again Dark Lord, I agree that we are going way too far with these discussions, therefore a suggestion to make topics for each idea.

PostPosted: **26 Dec 2011, 21:30**

what is the problem with the fog of war, no realistic? COME ON, do you call realistic being able to see a place in wich you are not standing? are you god and you see all the world? fog of war IS realistic , because if makes that, if you want to know what is happening in osme place, you have to send explorers, something TOTALLY REALISTIC...

really man.. it should have been one of the first thing in be made.

wich is no reallistic, is that each units have diferent reach of shight, what happen, the labourers are blind? they need lents? and the soldiers have eagle watch?

every one should have same line sight, at lest for revealing fog of war.

But here's my question:

Why would you give every unit the same line of sight? A man on foot cannot see the same as a man on a horse and therefor should every unit have different line of sight.

PostPosted: **26 Dec 2011, 21:37**

A man on a horse can see as far as any other human, that small amount of height wouldn't make such a big difference.
See everything in perspective and you would know that things aren't 100% realistic.
A mountain has the same size as an army. *derp*

PostPosted: **26 Dec 2011, 21:40**

Point taken, I was thinking a little too realistic

But I was just wondering why it should

PostPosted: **26 Dec 2011, 23:07**

Projects that are open for ideas often have "Ideas we are not going to implement" list somewhere visible.

PostPosted: **27 Dec 2011, 09:43**

That has already been shown in the first post of this topic

Accepted, Declined, Open for discussion and implemented.

PostPosted: **27 Dec 2011, 11:03**

I don't see a problem with making a church, or making monks, or making those paladins. I'm not sure about the monks going around blessing the army and increasing their attributes, but it doesn't seem like it would ruin the game and id do anything for better game-play and variety.

Q: Is there any sprite for these units???

A: Not yet, but as someone (I forgot who) already mentioned, I'll take care of the sprites, because it was my idea. It is a lot of work, and I know that.

Q: Would the monks be TRAINED in the church/monastery, or would the building be like all others in KaM, where you train the monk/priest (2gold) and he walks around your army blessing people automatically and increasing their morale (i prefer first option)... About the realism, it is pretty realistic. Increasing morale of your units would increase their fighting capabilities...

A: I like the first option as well, and maybe use a recruit as basic unit.

Q: The 'paladin' would be good against cavalry (as u suggested he uses a lance). I think that if he is implemented (i dont know how, if he has no sprites), he should require:
1) lance + horse + iron armament + long shield + recruit (and be like a knight with the attack possessed like a lance carrier
2) lance + horse + iron armament + long shield + priest/monk(costing 2 gold) (then maybe his attributes could be automatically boosted)

A:Yes, but I wouldn't put the monk on a horse. And I don't know about the paladin. Maybe a recruit + 1 wood + leather and create something like a archer without bow, with a cross on its back and a scepter in its hand. The monk would fight just like the lance carrier, because of the similar shape of weapon. The attack shouldn't do a lot of damage. And the monks defense shouldn't be so good as well.

The monk's special power could indeed be increasing morality of your troops, but the only problem I see is how would you do so? I mean, when you train 1 monk, who would he help?
Maybe the monk should increase productivity/
Anyway, I know I brought this up a little stupid, by saying find a way to implent this, because I didn't have an idea of my own, but I thought you would have better ideas like me. And I know this doesn't fix the problem but maybe you can understand why I would like some more buildings in KaM. Not just to make it look nice and wooh it looks awesome, but I think it would be nice to create more ways (tactics) for players to use the buildings avaible.

I'm not going to enter the discussion about the line of sight, the military unit balance, or fog of war. I like KaM as it is, and when Fog Of War will be an OPTION, I don't care. Then I'll just look for a room without it. Or try it.
I'm not entering the realistic discussion as well, I think it shouldn't be tooooo realistic, but it is true that not everything is realistic, but I can live with that. Some units like the Siege Equipment, should be more realistic, and I told you all my way on solving it and that's how I like, even though I didn't really care about the magic movement. But I can see why others have problems with it and I came up with a way to keep it in there someway. I can't say anything about the overpowered attacks they have, because I don't understand the Statistics, or how theyre called.
Anyway, in general I think this topic is here to discuss ideas people have, but maybe we should have a certain layout of posting a new idea (my idea wouldn't pass the test, but for the future...) like you need a sort of businessplan or something.
For example I want to introduce a new building.
Q:Ok, that's possible, how would it look like.
A:(The description or image).

Alright, what use does it have?
What does it create, train, obtain...?
What would it's occupant look like?
Why should it be implented?
And so on. All this questions should be answered to post your idea.

I didn't think about this very long, but maybe in a more advanced version, this layout could work. The layout could be posted in the first post.

And when I present a new idea, I don't want to implent it right away. I understand that the Basic Remake (TSK+Some functions TPR) should be finished first. But when it is finished and new ideas can be added, it would be nice to create some new ways (tactics) for players to play the game.

I hope you understand (and I'm willing to explain myself further when I wasn't completely clear),

Kridge

EDIT: I hope to upload an image of what the monk would look like in my opinion, as soon as possible. I hope somewhere this afternoon.

PostPosted: **27 Dec 2011, 11:32**

I don't like the idea of a monk, not realistic.
The troops relied more their lords than on priests and monks.
Since you are the lord, let them rely on you.
You are the master of tactics and strategy, you are the planner.

PostPosted: **27 Dec 2011, 12:15**

You're wrong Siegfried. If you think you should see the whole map at once, that means there is nothing to explore, so why leave the map black in the beginning??

I think, this concerns the multiplayer strategy - which is discussed in another thread. Let's continue there with the discussion.

Nevertheless, its not all about realism we are talking here. I think you are exaggerating when you talk like that about 'meters' and distances. If we were to be extramely realistic you would also not be able to see around mountains etc. and all this youre saying reduces gameplay.
thats not what we want

That's exactly the point that want to stress. Forget about realism, think of it as a game that is very loosely oriented on history. So what's the problem now if an iron pice is used both as a lance and a pitchfork?

PostPosted: **27 Dec 2011, 12:57**

Maybe it's better when we just list the new ideas, but don't discuss them untill the Remake is at a level that we can implent new functions.
And just report bugs and when you have a new idea, you put in on the list.
Maybe when playing the completed Remake, we realize we don't need the new idea.

PostPosted: **27 Dec 2011, 14:15**

I think that if knights must use spear (not only sword), they must do it just for charge and in close battle they will fight by swords. However, I think that knights that we have now - it is enough for game and knights with spears - not necessary. I just want tell those idea - nothing more.

PostPosted: **27 Dec 2011, 14:49**

Maybe it's better when we just list the new ideas, but don't discuss them untill the Remake is at a level that we can implent new functions.
And just report bugs and when you have a new idea, you put in on the list.
Maybe when playing the completed Remake, we realize we don't need the new idea.

Remake is already kind of "complete" and we keep adding stuff that was not in TSK (mostly MP stuff). But to say the truth most of the ideas are hard to depict in TSK, e.g. lance knights .. how do they fit into paper-rock-scissors triangle?

I suggest to split big ideas, that are voiced often, to be in separate threads, e.g. "Idea - Watchtower", or "Idea - New troops", "Marketplace", what do you saY?

PostPosted: **27 Dec 2011, 14:59**

I was testing and came with the problem that when your crossbowmen are attacking a tower, the enemy units behind that tower get hit, while they are out of the crossbowmen range.

I think this is a problem. I think it will result in problems for several defenders.

I don't think crossbowmen are OP, I do think cavalry is too difficult to produce and isn't strong enough.

PostPosted: **27 Dec 2011, 15:18**

A: Not yet, but as someone (I forgot who) already mentioned, I'll take care of the sprites, because it was my idea. It is a lot of work, and I know that.

Hey, I like the idea that someone knows how to make sprites. This gives me some enthusiasm. It can work as we have seen with the market place.

But I see a problem - we don't know if people will like the paladin idea. And - we don't know if Lewin&Krom will implement it. Eventually they have to accept this idea, so maybe before you start working on that, we should make sure, that it will be implemented into the remake. Otherwise you will waste your time. And personally I would hate to see that your enthusiams could be wasted in the end.

Maybe we should start a new thread discussing this. But I don't see to much chance that this will get accepted, because basically you're suggesting a super soldier. But as others have pointed out before, kam has been known that each unit has another unit that counters it. So it's different from AoE, where the later units are just better than the earlier units. In Kam, even the very expensive knights (4 resources) have a 50% chance (there was a simulation some time ago) to be killed by a cheaper pikeman (2 resources).

The paladin would counter almost every other unit. It's faster and has more hit points than regular infantry. It counters ranged units because of it's speed. And it counters regular cavalry because of the lance. Additionaly, it can run away from the only remaining threat (pikemen) because of the high speed.

Look at other threads and how people already complain about crossbowmen being overpowered. A regular speed, 1 hitpoint unit that cannot defend if the attacker is closer than 4 tiles. And think how people will complain about the paladin then.

I like the posted image and therefore I'm sure that I'd love the sprites, so please make sure that there is a fitting concept behind it, otherwise people will reject it. And from the reactions to other ideas, I am almost sure that Lewin&Krom won't include an idea that has the potential of making the game imbalanced.

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