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Town hall implementation suggestions
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2012, 00:36
by stan423321
I know that this is not a first priority issue, but a discussion couldn't hurt and this sepcifc thing deserves a thread. I'm absolutely sorry if I'm making up terminology, I'm an amateur player and of Polish version in fact.
How did town hall work like in TPR? You paid with gold to acquire a mercenary. Then he was treated like your average soldier, i.e. you provided food to him. This, if I understand correctly, is considered against spirit of the game because you may get a working army by only producing food and gold.
I have thought for a while about repurposing town hall while not making it something completely different. I ended up with following basic idea:
mercenaries require gold all the time, not only at the point of acquiring them, because you are supposed to hire them at critical moments of gameplay and fire them directly afterwards. This naturally caused a cascade of consequences in treating the mercenaries:
- The mercenary units become more powerful than in original game. This could be implemented differently with different units, of course, and more powerful doesn't necessarily mean just with more powerful stats. We could make up a maneveur or two. Some units could even not need food at all, eating stuff in forest and so.
- To provide contrast with regular soldiers, payment is delivered to the town hall, not to the mercenaries.
- Units differ in their "wage", of course.
I expect some of you to detect flaws, possibly major, in this way of dealing with town hall. However it is some starting point for discussion, isn't it?
Re: Town hall implementation suggestions
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2012, 13:51
by Bence791
How did town hall work like in TPR? You paid with gold to acquire a mercenary. Then he was treated like your average soldier, i.e. you provided food to him. This, if I understand correctly, is considered against spirit of the game because you may get a working army by only producing food and gold.
I think quite many of us knows how it worked. For the second part, you will never get a working mercenary army in multiplayer since you can't train soldiers before pt's end... And then, you can equip a maximum of 5 troops (rebels, and it could be multiplied by building more town halls), but compare things before you do anything: You can easily do equipments for 5 axemen in pt. Which would you choose? 5 axemen, or 5 rebels/2 militia/2 rogues/1 vagabond/1 warrior/barbarian? And imo it would be a waste of gold to "abuse" town hall in multiplayer. There are cases when players run out of gold in long games, then they have to trade for it. I think no-one would use the town hall (in multiplayer!)... It's only "role" is to be used in singleplayer in some missions like Gogoud's Campaign's (The Cruel King) 2nd mission, where you can train only mercenaries (Barracks, leather, iron and wooden weapon-production blocked).
I have thought for a while about repurposing town hall while not making it something completely different. I ended up with following basic idea:
mercenaries require gold all the time, not only at the point of acquiring them, because you are supposed to hire them at critical moments of gameplay and fire them directly afterwards. This naturally caused a cascade of consequences in treating the mercenaries:
- The mercenary units become more powerful than in original game. This could be implemented differently with different units, of course, and more powerful doesn't necessarily mean just with more powerful stats. We could make up a maneveur or two. Some units could even not need food at all, eating stuff in forest and so.
- To provide contrast with regular soldiers, payment is delivered to the town hall, not to the mercenaries.
- Units differ in their "wage", of course.
I expect some of you to detect flaws, possibly major, in this way of dealing with town hall. However it is some starting point for discussion, isn't it?
As I wrote above, their price in gold is already doesn't worth spamming, so I think I don't have to explain it again against the wages you mentioned.
As for the first point of your list, just to tell you it would be quite a bad idea to give the mercenaries more stats (to make them more powerful). Let's see their actual:
- Barbarians/Warriors: Attack Strength: 75 (Most powerful units), Defense: 2, Speed: 1 (relatively), Health points: 4. Ability to do Storm Attack. Price: 5 gold chests/troop. Already the most powerful unit, doesn't need further buff imo.
- Vagabonds: Attack Strength: 40 (Higher, than any leather melee troops'!), Defense: 1, Speed: ~1,7 (relatively, mounted), Health points: 4. Quite useful to chase archers. Price: 3 gold chests/troop. Already (a bit) more powerful, than leather troops, and their role is to flank the enemy. 40 is better, than Scouts' (35)!
- Militia: Attack Strength: 35, Defense: 1, Speed: 1 (relatively), Health points: 3. Ability to do Storm attack. Price: 2 gold chests/troop (at town hall, or 1 gold chest + 1 axe/troop at barracks). Weak, but quite easily spammable unit, also can be trained at barracks, this is the main reason it's not needed for them to be here, raising their stats would mean that they would be better, than the "barracks-kind", or they would be better to mass, than leather units.
- Rogues: Attack Strength: 60, Defense: 1, Speed: 1 (relatively), Health points: 1. They have the same attack strength as Bowmen, just a bit slower, than them. Price: 2 gold chests/troop. Already a "cheap" ranged unit, buffing them would make them better, than Bowmen.
- Rebels: Attack Strength: 25 (+60 against mounted), Defense: 1, Speed: 1 (relatively), Health points: 3. Quite useful and cheap unit against horses, attack power is the same as Lancers', they can easily counter a couple of horses (They might be the answer of the massive horses question, if there is something like that). Buffing them would make them far better than Lancers, even in price, even in combat.
I hope my review of their stats was something that explained you why don't they need buffing or stuff to make them more powerful. Good luck with thinking of ideas about Town Hall. I played TPR a lot as well, and I'm still playing (Ben's campaign, called For King and Country) it, so I can help you about how they do in combat if you want me to.
Bence791
Re: Town hall implementation suggestions
PostPosted: 20 Dec 2012, 15:26
by pawel95
I think no-one would use the town hall (in multiplayer!)
Well but only,because the system isnt good. If we changed the system. For example like real Renting.
So you buy a barbar and after 10/20/30 Min. he will go back to the barrack and wont attack for you anymore. It was the same in original(or example Assasins Creed for Computer) You cannnot control these guys for the end of there life,but only for some time. So maybe this would be an idea for townhall in Remake?!
Re: Town hall implementation suggestions
PostPosted: 22 Dec 2012, 23:01
by Ben
My suggestion would be to bury the townhall in a very deep bit and leave it there for future generations to uncover and place in the "Museum of Terrible Things in Games"
Re: Town hall implementation suggestions
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2012, 11:57
by Bo_
Wouldn't it make more sense to do it like this:
Town hall soldiers don't require to be fed, but when they're getting 'hungry' you need to 'feed' them with gold chests.
So they cost the same as they do actually, but you have to give them 1 gold chest instead of 1 wine/fish/bread/trunk when they're getting hungry.
If you don't they'll just disappear.
Re: Town hall implementation suggestions
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2012, 12:11
by batoonike
I would totally support mr Bo's idea, only that they would not dissapear. They would die
Just like starvation. However the whole idea is still useless if people use peace time.
Re: Town hall implementation suggestions
PostPosted: 23 Dec 2012, 13:53
by pawel95
Wouldn't it make more sense to do it like this:
Town hall soldiers don't require to be fed, but when they're getting 'hungry' you need to 'feed' them with gold chests.
So they cost the same as they do actually, but you have to give them 1 gold chest instead of 1 wine/fish/bread/trunk when they're getting hungry.
If you don't they'll just disappear.
Well thats just what i have meant i think,only that i thought it would be more real,when they go back to the Town hall and dont die only or dissappear.
And what if we would add to this idea,an other idea:
The Town hall is like a living house, so you can recruit only max 20 soldiers per Townhall and must build another townhall than?! Because they dont need food,but gold and its the living room of them. Also adding Recruits to the townhall is a thing,to make the Town Hall more weaker.
Re: Town hall implementation suggestions
PostPosted: 25 Dec 2012, 11:06
by Nirtepo
Wouldn't it make more sense to do it like this:
Town hall soldiers don't require to be fed, but when they're getting 'hungry' you need to 'feed' them with gold chests.
So they cost the same as they do actually, but you have to give them 1 gold chest instead of 1 wine/fish/bread/trunk when they're getting hungry.
If you don't they'll just disappear.
But wouldn't it be something like: these soldiers are overpowered, so you'd better use then within X minutes; otherwise you won't use their mighty power. " Chest of war" economies should persist as well, just a little more aggressive, because the player would be worried about attacking before the troop disappear. I may be exaggerating a little, but I believe most players don't even care about feeding troops, they just send them to war, hungry and all.
Barbarians/warriors have such great weapons that it seems like they would need both timber and iron to be produced and ,to top it off, the barbarian has such a layer of muscles that allows him to have the same defense of the scout, that holds a shield. I still think they need to be weaker.
The Town hall is like a living house, so you can recruit only max 20 soldiers per Townhall and must build another townhall than?! Because they dont need food,but gold and its the living room of them. Also adding Recruits to the townhall is a thing,to make the Town Hall more weaker.
I'm just thinking how would we determine the recruits to go either to the Townhall or to the castle, maybe a button in the Townhall.
Re: Town hall implementation suggestions
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012, 21:46
by kocsis1david
The soldiers that are buyed from the Town Hall and not paid any more could fight against the player instead of making them die
Re: Town hall implementation suggestions
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012, 10:30
by ChrisEggII
They would die
Or start fight against you.
//edit: Uh, sorry David, I didn't see your post.
Re: Town hall implementation suggestions
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2013, 21:27
by pawel95
There werse some dicussions in german forum. For example to give 5 (or more) gold + 2 axes + iron armour to have a warrior. what do you think about this idea?
Re: Town hall implementation suggestions
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2013, 00:57
by dicsoupcan
There werse some dicussions in german forum. For example to give 5 (or more) gold + 2 axes + iron armour to have a warrior. what do you think about this idea?
the resources are not growing on a tree
, no seriously i do think that is costing too much.
Re: Town hall implementation suggestions
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2013, 11:13
by pawel95
Well this was only one of tousand ideas. My idea is clear,that you can only rent the troops for like 10-30 minutes and they go back than to the townhall.
Back to this idea: Why it should cost too much?
A warrior is the strongest unit in the whole game?!
Also i have read from StarGazer why the townhall was implemented in TPR. He said,that for many players in TSk, when they wanted to play a short online game, this wasnt possible. Because you can only make milita about (i think) 25 minutes) but nothing more. So this was boring and the town hall was added from the developer.
However there is an other topic with "Multiplayer mutators". So when we should find an idea, which for the community+players is good and the Remake team want to add it, there were also the possibility for some players, who still dont like it, to set the game settings on "Town hall not allowed" or sth like that.
pawel95
Re: Town hall implementation suggestions
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2013, 11:25
by Da Revolution
Barbarians are indeed the strongest units, but you can't mass them with the town hall. So you won't have a chance against someone with a decent unit production. It would only work if you have unlimited gold.
Re: Town hall implementation suggestions
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2013, 11:57
by pawel95
Well thats the point about discussing here some new town hall systems. I know that only with the townhall you wont win. However you can add to your nice Army after 60 min PT some barbarians for example to rush perfectly, or whatever