Knights and Merchants.net Forum

PostPosted: **08 Dec 2008, 14:57**

I've been looking into the .map file description which The Barbarian wrote and tried a few things with them, and here's what I found out this far:

The resource table is being used by the AI.
It's so that the AI knows where to put for the mines (quarry, cole, gold and stone).
If a resource is not put in the table, the AI will simply ignore it, and search for the first following resource of that type.
If the resource isn't put in anywhere in the map, the AI will continue with the other buildings.

Mission to prove this fact (altered mission1 TSK):

http://rapidshare.com/files/171451743/resourcetable.rar.html
OR
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=58B9L0XD

To run this mission, do the following:
1) put the mission(.dat) file over your mission1.dat in KaM TPR/data/mission.
2) copy save01_resource_deleted.map to KaM TPR/data/mission/smaps and rename it to save01.map.
you can also see the normal result (with the resource still in the .map) by using your original save01.map, or by using save01_original.map in the archive.

This proves that the info from The Barbarian's save*.map File Description to be correct about that part.

However, the comment of the size of the resource record is not always true, for example, these are the missions which don't:

TSK MAPS
7, 8, 11, 12, 16, 18, 20

TPR MAPS
1, 4*, 6*, 7*, 9, 10*, 12*, 14*

MPLAYER MAPS
0*, 1*, 2*, 3*, 4*, 5*, 6*, 8*, 9*

just a number means the number of resource records isn't set.
a number with a * means it is set, but it has a value which isn't equal to MAP_WIDTH+MAP_HEIGHT

PostPosted: **08 Dec 2008, 15:48**

Is there any chance that those missions you listed are Fighting Only?

PostPosted: **09 Dec 2008, 00:38**

Is there any chance that those missions you listed are Fighting Only?

No. At least most of the TSK missions are not all fighting. However, none of the ones listed have an auto build AI. (as far as I know...)

Here's what I think: In the official map editor use by Joymainia, the resource areas are defined manually. (as in someone must do it themselves, it's not automatic) But it is only necessary to define them in missions which will have, or are planned to have, an auto building AI. Therefore it makes sense that they didn't bother defining them in maps which they knew wouldn't have an auto build. (that's just extra work) Prehaps some of the other missions which aren't listed there might have been planned to have auto build, but then they changed their mind later.
As for the ones with *, I think they still work. After all, in the single missions, (which use multiplayer maps) the AI will build mines won't he?

I'm not 100% sure what the max record count thing is, but surely it will still work if it's not map width + height? As long as the real number of records is bellow that number.
So I think that it's only the ones without * that don't have resource records defined, and just looking at them, none of them need it! If I'm correct none of them have an auto build AI.

Hope this helps to clear it up a bit,
Lewin.

PostPosted: **09 Dec 2008, 08:05**

Hey thanks for the info. I was already wondering how come. I'll try to find out some more stuff about it.

b.t.w. Why does Krom's Editor leave out a lot of objects? ok, not all objects are usable, but many are.

PostPosted: **09 Dec 2008, 09:13**

b.t.w. Why does Krom's Editor leave out a lot of objects? ok, not all objects are usable, but many are.

I asked him that once. The ones he leaves out are animations (like the different sizes of trees) or duplicates. (like the flowers that can be walked on and those that can't)
I agree, it's quite annoying because sometimes you want to use those extra objects, like with the flowers, or with the reeds. (one type places 4 in a square, one type only displays 1. In Krom's editor you can only place the 4 per square type)

I asked him if he could change it but he didn't seem to think it was necessary. (I don't think he understands) I could ask him again some time, and he might fix it.
Lewin.

PostPosted: **09 Dec 2008, 17:53**

So I think that it's only the ones without * that don't have resource records defined, and just looking at them, none of them need it! If I'm correct none of them have an auto build AI.

Actually mission 16 TSK does have an auto build AI, but I won't swear that it actually manages to place its mines correctly. Too long since I played it last time.

PostPosted: **10 Dec 2008, 00:36**

Actually mission 16 TSK does have an auto build AI, but I won't swear that it actually manages to place its mines correctly. Too long since I played it last time.

Hmmm... That will need to be tested. I will let you know what I find when I reach that mission in my beta testing. (still on 14 I'm afraid)

Possibly we should add a resource footer to that map, (as part of SR3) because otherwise the AI might not be building any mines/quarries at all. (that seems to be what Thunderwolf is implying)
Lewin.

PostPosted: **10 Dec 2008, 18:28**

Actually I just checked myself and the AI does build quarries and gold, coal and iron mines correctly in mission 16 TSK.

PostPosted: **10 Dec 2008, 23:50**

Actually I just checked myself and the AI does build quarries and gold, coal and iron mines correctly in mission 16 TSK.

Oh, that is odd! Maybe the resource footer doesn't do what we think it does. Are you sure mission 16 doesn't have one, Thunderwolf?

If the resource footer is not for the AI, then what does it do? I can see no other use for it.
Lewin.

PostPosted: **11 Dec 2008, 08:00**

I just wanna comment that I remember a mission of TSK (think between mission 10 and 20, where the black player has 2 villages on the right part of the map).

This AI is different from the AI of other maps... why? Well the AI builds smarter and more. He makes like 6 farms which doesn't happen in any of the other mission of TSK and TPR.

Anyone knows why this is hapening..?
In the days i made maps, I tryd to duplicatie this AI but I didnt manage todo it

PS: Also, is anyone working on getting the multiplayer maps working...? I'm still interested in this cuz I want a 'fair' multiplayer map

PostPosted: **11 Dec 2008, 10:29**

I just wanna comment that I remember a mission of TSK (think between mission 10 and 20, where the black player has 2 villages on the right part of the map).

This AI is different from the AI of other maps... why? Well the AI builds smarter and more. He makes like 6 farms which doesn't happen in any of the other mission of TSK and TPR.

Anyone knows why this is hapening..?
In the days i made maps, I tryd to duplicatie this AI but I didnt manage todo it

That sounds very interesting! I haven't played the later TSK maps for ages, so I'm not sure which one it could be. It must be above 13 though, because I've played all them and they haven't had a black autobuilder yet.
@Litude: Do you know what he's talking about? (you seem to have a pretty good knowledge of the campaign)

PS: Also, is anyone working on getting the multiplayer maps working...? I'm still interested in this cuz I want a 'fair' multiplayer map

Well, it's sort of working. Right now elevation won't display in MP unless you reveal the whole map. But it works apart from that, Krom fixed the "fake fog of war - map not revealing" bug.
So it can be played fairly, but the map does look a bit plain with flat hills.
You might be interested to know that I have been talking to Krom about this on ICQ and he is interested in getting it fixed. He is going to do some testing and hopefully will be able to release a new version soon that corrects this issue.

A mutliplayer map would be great, I'd like to have one on my site.
Lewin.

PostPosted: **11 Dec 2008, 14:06**

That sounds very interesting! I haven't played the later TSK maps for ages, so I'm not sure which one it could be. It must be above 13 though, because I've played all them and they haven't had a black autobuilder yet.
@Litude: Do you know what he's talking about? (you seem to have a pretty good knowledge of the campaign)

Well I don't think there's a single mission with two black foes that auto build (actually, I think there's only one mission with two autobuilding foes), but from the description I assume this is mission 14 as it is considered a real difficult mission and both enemies auto build (plus they are located on the right).

PostPosted: **11 Dec 2008, 22:31**

Only 1 of the 2 villages autobuild. I searched for the mission and it's this one: http://i38.tinypic.com/2h7qagl.jpg

As u can see the village i'm talking about is where the red circle is...

PostPosted: **11 Dec 2008, 23:13**

Well ok i took some screenshots and this is what i notice...
1) he build 3 farms in the beginning and end up with 6 in total
http://i34.tinypic.com/1ynz9d.jpg

2) he build a "cant find the english word atm :p, smelter" like he does on normal dingle player maps but then he really build a gold mine and a cole mine (what does not happen in any other map i think?). Also the chronological order is not followed by the AI
http://i35.tinypic.com/2v8sjzt.jpg

3) Another screenie...
http://i36.tinypic.com/2it0g41.jpg

4) As u can see, unlike other missions, the AI doesnt build any building on cole exept for a cole mine. Regardless from the starting point. also notice the 1 extra warehouse he builds.
http://i33.tinypic.com/33vkuvs.jpg

5) he's making another woodcutter which brings the total on 3 woodcutters. He also makes the castle first and then the weapon stuff...
http://i37.tinypic.com/2chkx2t.jpg

Then I lost cuz i didnt made a village... xD just to show some proof. Take alook at it yourself.

PS: I'm sorry i didnt say this before but I didnt stand still with this the fact that this is interesting...

PostPosted: **14 Dec 2008, 14:52**

I just checked the resource footer of mission16. it does have it, it just doesn't comply with the barbarian's documentation. the counters are 0, but the values are there. That must be where the error is...

Knights and Merchants.net Forum

Save*.map Resource footer

Save*.map Resource footer