Towers

[Lewin]

I played a few games in the release candidates and I think towers are still a bit too inaccurate (against moving targets mainly). What do you think?

[Bo_]

I think they're still too accurate. The use of towers is to hold of 2 militia trying to sneak in, and to give you a defensive advantage.
When making them too powerfull players will just spam them around, wich just, in my opinion, ruins the game.

[Mulberry]

In my opinion towers are overpowered for the moment. Decrease it please if its possible. And what is tower acuracy difference between upcoming and previous releases?

Lewin, is there somewhere topic where you discussed market values changing? I feel really uncomfortable about it.

[Siegfried]

Finally towers are usable, again. They hit cavalry too often, but for the rest of the troops, it's just fine.

A tower is meant to be a protective obstacle that needs to be countered before you can enter the city. So they shall be powerful to a certain degree. I think their strength agains non-horse troops is perfect right now. Just nerf the cavalry.

[Da Revolution]

Towers are too good at the moment in my opinion.

[T*AnTi-V!RuZz]

Towers are fine. I agree with Siegfried.

[The Dark Lord]

Towers are okay now.

[Jeronimo]

Towers are perfect (3/5 kill ratio).

Tested them with Editor many times... sending a group of 30 militias through center of 5 towers.
The result was similar... often 14-15-16 were killed. As conclusion... 3/5 stones are succesful to hit.

There is no reason to change that again (previous value was a miserable 2/5).

[Bo_]

I have a fantastic idea!
It quite annoys me when players send their builders to empty my towers,
so why not changing towers so they don't attack citizens? So serfs, builders, etc.
I don't see a point in general why towers would attack citizens...

[Lewin]

I have a fantastic idea!
It quite annoys me when players send their builders to empty my towers,
so why not changing towers so they don't attack citizens? So serfs, builders, etc.
I don't see a point in general why towers would attack citizens...

That's actually a really good idea to solve the builder rush problem, not sure why nobody hasn't thought of it yet.
I can think of one downside, that means you can build past enemy towers or build your own towers next to them (especially important during peacetime).

Hmmm so it seems some people think towers are good now, and some people think they're over powered. We don't have different accuracy settings for cavalry/normal units, we just bigger jitter based on the unit's current speed. So cavalry and charging units will be hit less often than walking units.

In my opinion towers are overpowered for the moment. Decrease it please if its possible. And what is tower acuracy difference between upcoming and previous releases?

Previously the jitter added for a moving target was 6*speed, now it's 4*speed. (speed=0.1 when walking, 0.15 when running/mounted IIRC). The base jitter (always added) has remained the same at 0.2. The jitter is the random amount added/subtracted from the position aimed for. So basically:
Target.X = Aim.X + Random_In_Both_Directions(base_jitter + speed*moving_jitter)
Target.Y = Aim.Y + Random_In_Both_Directions(base_jitter + speed*moving_jitter)

Random_In_Both_Directions(x) = random number between -x and +x
Please note that Aim is perfect, i.e. it is the exact position the target will be at if he keeps walking in a straight line. If he changes direction while the projectile is in the air (which units often do) it means the projectile is much more likely to miss.

The probability to hit is done like this: If it lands at 0 distance from a unit, it's guaranteed to hit. At 1 distance it's guaranteed to miss. At 0.5 it has a 50% chance of hitting the unit.

Judging on the responses I think we'll leave towers the way they are right now.

Lewin, is there somewhere topic where you discussed market values changing? I feel really uncomfortable about it.

I made a topic for it here:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1107
Please explain there what you are so uncomfortable about. The changes aren't that significant and only increased the values of a few things, so it won't make anything more exploitable.

[kocsis1david]

I think towers are okey now.

I have a fantastic idea!
It quite annoys me when players send their builders to empty my towers,
so why not changing towers so they don't attack citizens? So serfs, builders, etc.
I don't see a point in general why towers would attack citizens...

It's good, but it would allow to simply walk into the city with builders if there's no soldiers. But this could be less important than the problem it solves.

[Remake 2012]

I think towers are okey now.

I have a fantastic idea!
It quite annoys me when players send their builders to empty my towers,
so why not changing towers so they don't attack citizens? So serfs, builders, etc.
I don't see a point in general why towers would attack citizens...

It's good, but it would allow to simply walk into the city with builders if there's no soldiers. But this is problably less important than the problem it solves.

True.
Very often this is the case that some players quickly build towers to defend against builders, who kept discovering the area

What to do?. There is a way. And it's very good. Enter the second archer towers for enemy units. (For residents), (​​is that seen in the alpha game), the tower is not attacked by military units. So that would not be a problem as you kill the archer on the tower.

(Archer would have increased the range of 3 cells. This way, you do not need to be placed on that tower every few meters.)

[-George Stain-]

Towers are good and it's important to keep them useful.. the're not OP.. there is many options how counter towers, but players are very often lazy to do it.. (my case )

[Lewin]

What to do?. There is a way. And it's very good. Enter the second archer towers for enemy units. (For residents), (​​is that seen in the alpha game), the tower is not attacked by military units. So that would not be a problem as you kill the archer on the tower.

(Archer would have increased the range of 3 cells. This way, you do not need to be placed on that tower every few meters.)

Archer towers have been discussed before and rejected.

I think we can stop people building stuff on your area with some kind of territories system for during peacetime. Towers aren't really a solution to this anyway because people can build into your area before you have towers, or at a place where you don't have towers.

So I still think making towers only target military units is a good idea, no more stupid builder rushes to empty towers

[Thorakh]

So I still think making towers only target military units is a good idea, no more stupid builder rushes to empty towers

How about making them prioritise military units? Would still mean that citizens cannot enter an enemy town, given that no military units are around. Or even better, add two checkboxes "Attack military units" and "Attack citizens". By default both would be checked.