new .map decoding (as exported by Krom's editor)

[harold]

I've only been looking at it for about half an hour now, and have some suspicions about the format - but do not think this is actual information (yet)

Appended to the end of the file (after the 0xFF) there is "ADDNTILE" in ascii, followed by:
0x04 (unknown, always 4 so far)
unknown byte - unknown, but seems to depend only on the size of the map
0x00 - meaning unknown, never seen other than 0
0x00 - meaning unknown, never seen other than 0
unknown - also only seems to depend on the size
unknown - also only seems to depend on the size
0x41
0x35

width*height bytes that indicate what brush is used:
1 = grass
17 = water
not researched the rest seeing as the unknown bytes have to be right for the editor to accept the map - whether or not it is actually original


you may wonder what use this is? well who knows, maybe someone feels like decoding it, or maybe someone wants to make original maps easier to edit? (map2pro can still be used but I was too lazy to get the brush into right)
I don't really feel like wasting time on this, but if I ever get bored I may - because security through obscurity is the root of all evil, and all maps should be equally editable as soon as they on on your harddisk - it's your harddisk afterall!

[Lewin]

I don't really know how I feel about this whole editing the original maps thing. I can see both sides of the argument. However, I don't think Litude will publish this in the decoding section and I don't think anyone would use it anyway.
After all, MapToPro still works just as well and so there's no need to make a MapToMap converter.

@Harold: If you're bored and looking for something to decode them how about this:
You may have heard that when people make multiplayer missions then you must reveal the whole map or else there is an error. We are almost certain that this is due to the map, and not the script. If you use an original map then it works fine. If you use a map made/edited in Qages editor then it works fine. If you use a map made in Krom's editor, then it does work at all. (this happened before the new map format too) So something in the way Krom exports maps is different to the originals and Qage's. It is probably to do with the unknown bytes, or possibly the light.
A possible temporary fix would be to make the map in Krom's editor, the open and re-save it with Qage's. However I haven't tried this yet.

If you can work this out and Krom can implement the new method then many people will thank you, (including me) as currently we can't make our own multiplayer maps.
Lewin.

[harold]

It could be the light yes, Krom's editor always exports 0 whereas Qage's editor defaults to 0x10
Should I test it by changing all light's to 0x10 in a Krom map and test it? It's really a bit much work to be scripting such a script for my hexeditor for this purpose, I suggest we let Krom try it (no offence but it's his bug after all)

[Lewin]

It could be the light yes, Krom's editor always exports 0 whereas Qage's editor defaults to 0x10
Should I test it by changing all light's to 0x10 in a Krom map and test it? It's really a bit much work to be scripting such a script for my hexeditor for this purpose, I suggest we let Krom try it (no offence but it's his bug after all)

Yeah, it is Krom's problem. Interesting to know that Qage does it differantly. I'll have a look myself at some point, and I'll talk to Krom about it.
Do the original maps have the light set to something other than 0? If so then I that is probably it and Krom should do something about it.
Lewin.

[harold]

Do the original maps have the light set to something other than 0?

Well they use 0 a lot too, but as far as I've seen so far they often use non-0 at least somewhere
But I don't have my own map editor with which I could quickly research this - I'm looking at them with a hex editor, and it's easy to make mistakes that way..
There is also byte 12 which indicates whether a tile is on the right or bottom edge or a combination of both - and maybe it has to be exactly right for KAM to do some things (things that if they exist may have something to do with multiplayer)

[Krom]

harold, do you understand simple words? KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF!

Go write your own map editor and do with it whatever you like.

[harold]

Now now, it's not like I completely decoded it and posted a program that adds a fake footer to a map
TBH I'm not really interested in that anyway, there are plenty of ways to edit regular maps (so not just allow it? it's not like disallowing it will stop anyone)

But who knows, maybe I will make a map editor.. the point of it being slightly beyond me though seeing as it's often easier to hack around the limitations of 'existing ones'
I also tried to use OllyDbg on your editor but it started misbehaving so I gave up on that - reading through tons of assembly the normal way is just too much work

for now I am happy enough with map2pro to let this rest..

[Lewin]

Harold, I agree with Krom. Altough for a differant reason. I agree that "security through obscurity is the root of all evil" but what is the point decoding these files? It's nothing but a waste of time, you should be doing TKE!!
You're right, map2pro still works fine, so why decode the new map format?
Lewin.

[Krom]

I repeat: KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF.

I don't permit any hacking attempts on my work. Is that clear enough for you to understand?

Go write yourself a *.map editor and be happy.

@Litude: I ask you to lock this topic and issue a ban warning for harold. According to forum rules you provide:

Absolutely no discussion about piracy in any form.
Do not flame or offend other members of the forum.

I treat harolds hacking attempts and disregard as violation of these rules. Furthermore I find harolds attitude very unhealthy towards community good modding spirit.

[harold]

Ok ok I'll keep it private..
Geez man you don't have to take it personally..

[Krom]

Lewin, you raised a good point, why is harold wants to decode it even it's pointless? For few reasons I guess, I list them:
- for some reason he obsessed with idea of unlimited map editor, but he can't write his own one Thats doubtful since he already forged map2pro.. but he wants to keep his image as valuable member with least effort.
- he likes hacking itself, it's what he thinks he's good at. When contributing to KaM why would he create something himself when he can hack someone elses work?
- whats interesting left to hack around KaM .. something not as hard as KaM files .. ? Maybe new map format I did .. :roll:
- and finally it seems he has no such thing as respect for others.

EDIT: By the way, notice harolds way of acting, he didn't contacted me about format, he didn't posted anything about need for that, no. He started this "Let's just hack it" topic :evil:

[harold]

If I had contacted you then you would just have refused to give information anyway
Because that was the point of this format, right? To keep my nose out of it?

But wait, what are you doing there? Are you beginning to flame?

Let's look at you then shall we..
- you invent a new format, but do not publish it.
- you feel personally offended about a piece of information
- you threaten with a BanHammer?

But let's not go too far here. You made your dislike of my decoding those 8 bytes (which is all it really is, the rest is quite clear) known, and since they have little value to me I will not publish any more information about them - and quite possibly will not even look to find more information. But I would expect you to stop hunting me.. please

[Litude]

Locked to prevent flame war