Scripting demo release candidate

[Remake 2012]

Ok I chave idea to editor


Missing Option in editor
Now:

If I make map alwayyyyys is everywhere green grass :/ ( yep its boring....)
I would like to be able to select a start area, be it water, mud, sand ...

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Second idea:

Now:

We have to lobby the "special maps"
wtf?, Maps special ? No... this is map with script,
Add to each map tab scripts and the ability to turn it on (if applicable)

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Bug ?Missing option?
Third: (editor)

I am in the game in the editor. I open the map and I correct it. I saved. I do now have a new map. But there is no option new map. (is save, load, quit the game).

Now: I must quit in editor and again enter into the editor.

[pawel95]

Maybe someone could transform this post of Remake to "ideas" topic, first aim is for the ACTUAL RC to fix the bugs or talk about the things with balance(forester,stonemeason)

Dont see it as a personal thing Remake its only, its hard to add new things when the "old" ones don´t work without bugs/problems.



pawel95

[Remake 2012]

Maybe someone could transform this post of Remake to "ideas" topic, first aim is for the ACTUAL RC to fix the bugs or talk about the things with balance(forester,stonemeason)

Dont see it as a personal thing Remake its only, its hard to add new things when the "old" ones don´t work without bugs/problems.
pawel95

First:

Sorry my fault.
First ( areas in editor in start) IMO it's missing option in editor.
Second, yes it's idea
Third, Its missing option in editor

[The Dark Lord]

Build speed are same as before and you can`t make more buildings now.

More timber equals more buildings and/or more weapons.

[Lewin]

Ok, so the main problem now is that you get too much wood so you don't have to manage your wood supply in the early game (it's no longer really possible to run out). The reason for this? Woodcutter is placed a bit earlier, so you get a nice bonus of wood flow at the start. But if we get the map authors to remove 10 or 20 wood from the starting resources then that should fix it by cancelling out the fact that you now get wood a bit earlier. So once again you will have to manage your wood carefully ("going to all 4 corners of the map trying to hunt for some wood to continue building") and the early game will not be easy.

We can write a message to the map makers in the next RC email, something like "Attention map authors: due to the new unlock order you may want to reduce the starting wood amounts slightly if you want your map to be more challenging."

- The scores in Coastal Encounter Scored are debatable, but I like it.

Feel free to suggest better scores, I just made those ones up when I was making that script as a test

one thing i forgot to mention, i wanted to see the shoot and halt fix in a battlemap but i could not give the ai a location, and i could not start because i got the message : unable to assign random locations. is this done on purpose?

Map authors can now specify whether locations are usable by humans, AIs, or both. It had no effect in the past but now a lot of maps don't let you put AIs in some locations (hence why it can't assign locations to AIs) I'll add to the todo list to check through all the maps and let you put AIs on maps where that makes sense.

[thunder]

Hi!

I just want to tell, i like the changes. Speed, scripts and mainly the editors. How i see the the game start to be too faster(three times speed was really crazy, i knew it is easy to fail it.).
Personally i dont like the opened inn. I think many players will like it. But some changes just divide the community. I dont worry because new speed values are there, those are just optional. I dint remember, but i wrote somewhere maybe could this 'opened inn' be optional, as the game and fighting speed?
With these changes saved too much gaming time. Sppeed+ inn...but i think many players will miss the original kam feeling. I think the goldencenreway is the chooseable gamestyle gameoptions.
Can select from many options, and make statistic and after make a conclusion, which was the playest(as same the maps).
New massage system is nice, i think develep was necesarry.

Regards!
t

Ps: i dont think i will play more than 1xspeed, max1,5 because i missed too many things from the game on 3x, but i really like there is other possibilities, and those are choseable, he original game doesnt damaged.
Editora. i cant find the words...maybe simple awsome.

[BloodTree]

Build speed are same as before and you can`t make more buildings now.

More timber equals more buildings and/or more weapons.

If you run out of wood then yes but at map where you don`t run out of would its almost same. Its only good that you need less would cuter coz at some map you need space for other things like farms.
At r4297 you cam build in 60min pt like 80-110 buildings but can you make in r5057 more buildings?
At my point of view no need cut out from maps wood coz now its opportunity build city witch can feed army if you guys see it wrong I am sad.
What we need now its different build style!
If you have enough wood to build wine fields too in thous 60min pt its only great. You can have all kind of food types and opportunity to feed your army. Is that not balanced?
At r4297My xbow rare dies in fights coz at right time i can send them back to my city but i never could feed them and i had to send them die anyway so it was wrong.

[sado1]

Build speed are same as before and you can`t make more buildings now.

Its only good that you need less would cuter coz at some map you need space for other things like farms.

Isn't a farm a building? Anyway, you just proved that it will be easier now - at some maps you need space but you don't have it. Because the mapmaker wanted it to be harder... deal with it.

At my point of view no need cut out from maps wood coz now its opportunity build city witch can feed army

If you will be able to add food to your production, someone will be able to make a starving city with a bigger army. Well... not sure my sentence is true anymore, since corn seems to be boosted now, so food might be easier because of that as well.

At r4297 My xbow rarely dies in fights coz at right time i can send them back to my city

You can't send back your troops to the city. You always keep them in your city anyway
But jokes aside... if the game is so easy that everyone can make food, big armies and stuff, there won't be any differrence between better and worse players. I wouldn't like that, no one would remember that I am the worst KaM player ever, and I like having that title

[Pizzaisgood]

Ok i see that Lewin and Krom are totally against bringing back the old buildorder to some maps who needed this . I see that the new buildorder will speed up the game a bit and like that will save some prescious time of 5 minutes for everyone who could not live with that 5 minutes longer game. I personally was never bored in the first minutes because i always used that time for planning my city or discussing strats with my teammates.
Anyway if the changes stay like this its ok for people like me or romek because we can adapt to the new gamestyle. But then i would really ask you to inform all mapmakers, so that they rebalance their maps because that is definatly needed. Otherwise the game would just be too easy on many maps and no challenge anymore at all.
So mapmakers should consider relocating resources, checking startresources like timber,stone,food and goldchests and last but not least the buildingspace management.
I think this rebalancing of the maps will be a hard job and that is what im worried about. Golden Cliffs was the perfect example for a perfect balanced map and now it has to be rebalanced. Im afraid that this perfect balance won´t be as perfect as it was.

So i think i will stop defending the old build-order because it really seems to have no sense at all to argue with people who won´t change their oppinion about not bringing the old build-order back.
Like this we won´t discuss here to the infinity about old and new buildorders.

So my point now is: We need serious rebalancing in most maps. So please inform all mapmakers about these changes.

But still my personal oppinion is that the old build-order should be brought back to the game. I just relent to keep the developing running and to make the game enjoyable again . But honestly i dont like that i have to relent like this... really a lot of people think that the old build-order should stay optional in the game. I´ve got the feeling there are even more people who support the old build-order than people who support the new one.

[sado1]

[The Dark Lord]

I'd still like a reply on this post:

Regarding the actual discussion of building unlocks:
- if the problem is that it makes maps too easy them maps can be modified to have less timber, stone, food, etc.

I agree.

- if the problem is that players build too much before peacetime then you can play with 5 or 10 minutes less peacetime

I agree.

- if the problem is that new players get confused and run out of wood/stone or forget to build an inn, that's a serious problem which needs to be considered

I agree. But don't think that it's only new players who forget to build an inn. It has happened to me and other TS guys as well.

Anyway, there is one more option you didn't mention. What if the problem is that people just don't like it and prefer the old way? Someone like myself? Call me a conservative, but KaM has always been a slow game and I like it. There's now an option to increase the game speed, so I don't see the necessity to speed up the game even more, and, what's worse: compulsory! We have no choice.

Map authors can still change the unlocking, for example To's maps still have the quarry and woodcutter unlocked at the start, other maps you have to build the school first (so To's maps still allow a faster game start than others because you can get the sawmill after just 1 building, rather than 2). So there's still room for customisation. You could even unlock the sawmill at the start to allow players to rush for gold/iron before getting woodcutters/stonemasons properly set up. Or unlock farms at the start to encourage people to use horses. Or unlock gold/iron/coal mines at the start. There's lot of possibilities for customising your map by unlocking certain buildings.

So when all of this is possible... when we can have so many different combinations and options of building unlocking... Why can't we have the old, default one?

[Jeronimo]

DarkLord... they won't bring old order back... speeding game was something they had in mind, implementing it now in this version.

Why not renegotiate and unlock only Quarry (from School)?
If Old order is dead... then let's slow 2-3 mins the Woodcutter so isn't so damn "easy".
The benefits of only Quarry as well helps the newbies to get introduced in vital buildings order.

I wonder if Krom/Lewin are really into ultra-defending woodcutter unlocked, or will try a middle point with only quarry faster...

@Siegfried: You can't be serious about endless discussing about the 2 extremes orders: old slow, or new fast.
This Issue should be sorted out ASAP, so we move into new discussion such as Market new values.

Do you know about Budha's life? He realized that Enlightment can't be found in the extreme human conditions... but only in middle body status, inner harmony.

@Romo: At this point, fighting for old order is senseless as Pizza said... Developers wanted this from time ago... Now it bombs like a surprise.
I understand your words Romo... but the only thing we can do is to reclaim for just Quarry unlocked after School. I'm sorry.

[The Dark Lord]

DarkLord... they won't bring old order back... speeding game was something they had in mind, implementing it now in this version.

I trust Krom and Lewin have arguments to counter mine and I hope it's not like you say and they just implemented this 'because they have been wanting to do so for a long time'. I still don't see why we can't have the choice between old and new. I can unlock every building from the start, I can do the most crazy things, but the good old default build order, which everyone is used to, is unaccessible to anyone. How does that make sense?
This new build order is completely unnecessary because it is already possible to speed up the game, plus it will be confusing for players (not to mention that people will forget to build an inn now and then). Bringing variation to early game? I'd say: choose a map with woodcutter unlocked (To's maps for example) or make your own.

[Ben]

The Dark Lord is speaking with a lot of wisdom= Why can't we have out own choice? I especially like this quote=

Bringing variation to early game? I'd say: choose a map with woodcutter unlocked (To's maps for example) or make your own.

Also, like he said, it is already possible to speed the game up now with the new lobby options, so this is totally unnecessary...

[Lewin]

As I see it there are two problems with game speed:
1. The entire game takes too long (1 hour build your village to see it destroyed in 10 minutes), speeding up peacetime improves this
2. The early part of the game (before the sawmill) is very slow compared to the rest of the game.

Here's how it goes: I place the school, wait 3 minutes for it to build. Place the inn, wait another 3 minutes for it to build... Then I can place 3 stonemasons and the game becomes a bit more interesting, after the first one is built I can start placing woodcutters, and after that the game pace really starts to speed up because there's lots of choices available and you have to plan everything carefully. But those first 5-6 minutes while waiting for the school and inn to build are pretty uninteresting. Sure you can chat with your team and plan what you'll do next, but I think the pace is very inconsistent with the rest of the game. When I play multiplayer I often I go look at the forum or read my emails while the school/inn are building. If the game doesn't hold the player's attention because he has to wait for 5 minutes for something to happen then that's not a good thing.

Just out of interest, would everybody be happy if we kept the inn/school unlocking at the start but made the woodcutter unlock after the stonemason? (Jeronimo's suggestion) My biggest complaint about the game speed is the inn/school, the stonemasons/woodcutters are less of a problem to me (although I still think it's better to unlock them both at the same time). That should mean all the issues with wood go away, because the only difference is that you can skip the inn until a bit later (or let the serfs deliver to it while the school is being built: http://i.imgur.com/OUItQhf.png).