Former Site Admin
Posts: 3814
Joined: 08 Jan 2009, 23:00
Location: California - Pacific Time (UTC -8/-7 Summer Time)
Former Site Admin
Posts: 3814
Joined: 08 Jan 2009, 23:00
Location: California - Pacific Time (UTC -8/-7 Summer Time)
Difficulty should be consistent with original TSK. I think it's okay that mission 8 and 14 were tough as balls. It should be the same in the Remake
Since they're not very active now, I just did what I thought would be good. If I rely on them now, my fixes will take forever to be finished. They can say what they don't want when they come back.I don't at all disapprove with your changes, but please make sure that Lewin and Krom approve of such changes before you take this further. I know we should value AI performance over the exact match up of villages and quantity of troops, but they still might not like these changes.
It was because I was thinking that it would be good for enemies to have every kind of troop defending their town (+ lances & horses).More troops in TSK 8? LOL, did you add them because of my 31 minute win in r5503? Maybe I should try to beat it in 30 minutes to change your mind.
Please don't do that, I can't make changes which will stop you from winning. It's not my campaign .
*Edit:
Hey you two guys (cmowla, Everstill), you both made a good points and explained your point of view. Thank you for time spent here on writing these things.
BUT please stop filling my topic with this now, it's "Vatrix's Campaign Fixes" after all, not "cmowla's and Evertstill's battle tactics"
I need help with fixing here ... anyone listening ... hello?
*Edit2:
BTW I'm just playing my fixes and saving replays for all of you to see how I'm playing my missions
This is your interpretation of the storyline. The thing is, it is not up to you to decide that the player shouldn't be able to destroy the first village with his initial army. If it was possible in the original campaign, it should be possible in the Remake's version too. Since building in the Remake is faster than in the original game, I agree with adding a few extra troops/wares/whatever to maintain the difficulty. But to double the army count...?
Todo for next patch (TSK):
Needed:
General:
- block fish in all missions (Bens idea, I really like it)
- remove all fish from storehouses
- market balancing
- recruit timer balancing
- AI wares balancing (mostly gold and timber)
- balance missions difficulty
- this is not he right difficulty order:
cmowla wrote:
TSK 11
TSK 8
TSK 14
TSK 7, TSK 15
TSK 12
TSK 20
TSK 9
TSK 4
TSK 5
TSK 16
TSK 18
TSK 1
TSK 2
TSK 4
- make both cities have wares in all houses from start (like the city is working already)
- improve top yellows attacks
- improve top yellows defence positions
- change radius of bottom yellows defence positions (still not same as in original + not well balanced)
- switch of defend allies (useless, just annoying)
TSK 5
- make both cities have wares in all houses from start (like the city is working already)
- improve defence positions
- first blue enemy attack should happen sooner (-15 minutes I assume)
- maroon horses defence positions are redone in patch 1.0, but needs more work
TSK 8
- redo defence positions of both enemies
TSK 9
- bottom-right enemy should make soldiers after at least 60 minutes (also need more feedback on this) - he should be building his city instead of making army
TSK 12
- moorbach should not attack you (dont know if I should let him, in patch 1.0 I set him to attack human player, but its not according to original) - what do you think?
- bottom green guy is not working the same way as in original - need more work
TSK 20
- need complete enemy attacks rebalancing
- fix problems with iron supply balance for top enemy
Optional (+ not according to original):
TSK 8
1)
- make both enemies make only leather units
- results in rebuilding both cities to be more leather-like
2)
- after depleting iron, instead of axemen they should build barbarians (dynamic script)
With your feedback Ill extend this list, so I ask you again to write here every little thing (related to my campaign )
Also any opinion on my Todo list?
Former Site Admin
Posts: 3814
Joined: 08 Jan 2009, 23:00
Location: California - Pacific Time (UTC -8/-7 Summer Time)
The reason to block fish and market in TSK is because that campaign was not designed with those features in mind. How would you like it if you made a campaign, balanced it the way you like then BAM! - Lewin and Krom add ninjas to the remake that completely destroy the balance of you campaign. Not so cool in my opinion
Speaking of which, this is actually why I think it would be good to keep the old build order in TSK. However, that contradicts the mechanics of the Remake. We need to decide where the line is between what should be a core mechanic and what was designed for the campaign in the first place.
Former Site Admin
Posts: 3814
Joined: 08 Jan 2009, 23:00
Location: California - Pacific Time (UTC -8/-7 Summer Time)
Wait wait, we cannot follow this when fixing the Campaigns, because the Peasant Rebelion Campaign are designed with the Siege Weapons in mind, we will bring them just for the sake of this Campaign?? In fact, the TSK campaign is balanced based on the original game, the Remake have too much changes and the balance is already destroyed, the Campaign is not designed with the Shield Defense bonus for example.The reason to block fish and market in TSK is because that campaign was not designed with those features in mind. How would you like it if you made a campaign, balanced it the way you like then BAM! - Lewin and Krom add ninjas to the remake that completely destroy the balance of you campaign. Not so cool in my opinion
Speaking of which, this is actually why I think it would be good to keep the old build order in TSK. However, that contradicts the mechanics of the Remake. We need to decide where the line is between what should be a core mechanic and what was designed for the campaign in the first place.
Instead of removing the new features because it 'completely destroy the balance', let's just rebalance the Campaign to fit the new things. Fish is not a thing that 'omg, now I can easily win TSK 8', it's just a new thing that I, myself, rarely use. Market on the other hand must be tested if it bring imbalance.
The old build order really contradicts the new mechanics of Remake, while I can accept and understand why Vatrix made the old build order, we can't balance the missions based on the new Build order? Let's just test how much time it takes to build things with the original build order and the new build order, then, we subtract this extra time in the delay for the AI to start to train troops.
For example, to build things with the new build order, it takes 40 minutes, with the old, it takes 55 minutes, just subtract 15 minutes in the delay for Recruits that the AI have to start training troops and the balance will stay the same.
I get and understand your arguments and we really need to decide where the line is between what should be a core mechanic and what was designed for the campaign, but instead of removing features to fit the campaign, we can't choose the other way and fit the features in the campaign?
Doesn't matter if the mission can be balanced in different ways. We could add elephants to the game and balance them in too. The point is that the missions were not intended to have these features so they shouldn't be there.Wait wait, we cannot follow this when fixing the Campaigns, because the Peasant Rebelion Campaign are designed with the Siege Weapons in mind, we will bring them just for the sake of this Campaign?? In fact, the TSK campaign is balanced based on the original game, the Remake have too much changes and the balance is already destroyed, the Campaign is not designed with the Shield Defense bonus for example.The reason to block fish and market in TSK is because that campaign was not designed with those features in mind. How would you like it if you made a campaign, balanced it the way you like then BAM! - Lewin and Krom add ninjas to the remake that completely destroy the balance of you campaign. Not so cool in my opinion
Speaking of which, this is actually why I think it would be good to keep the old build order in TSK. However, that contradicts the mechanics of the Remake. We need to decide where the line is between what should be a core mechanic and what was designed for the campaign in the first place.
Instead of removing the new features because it 'completely destroy the balance', let's just rebalance the Campaign to fit the new things. Fish is not a thing that 'omg, now I can easily win TSK 8', it's just a new thing that I, myself, rarely use. Market on the other hand must be tested if it bring imbalance.
The old build order really contradicts the new mechanics of Remake, while I can accept and understand why Vatrix made the old build order, we can't balance the missions based on the new Build order? Let's just test how much time it takes to build things with the original build order and the new build order, then, we subtract this extra time in the delay for the AI to start to train troops.
For example, to build things with the new build order, it takes 40 minutes, with the old, it takes 55 minutes, just subtract 15 minutes in the delay for Recruits that the AI have to start training troops and the balance will stay the same.
I get and understand your arguments and we really need to decide where the line is between what should be a core mechanic and what was designed for the campaign, but instead of removing features to fit the campaign, we can't choose the other way and fit the features in the campaign?
King Karolus Servant
Posts: 2154
Joined: 29 Aug 2007, 22:00
KaM Skill Level: Veteran
Location: In his dark thunderstormy castle
Tpr was designed with Townhall and Siegesmith (or whatever it was called) but neither is usable in the campaign... So why take out fish in Tsk? Just because it wasn't there in the first Game?
You guys are contradicting things. Get something out that wasn't there and also get something out that was there.... decide for one option and not a mix from both... so i agree with everstill
Doesn't matter if the mission can be balanced in different ways. We could add elephants to the game and balance them in too. The point is that the missions were not intended to have these features so they shouldn't be there.
so even basic TSK campaign can not be played exactly like it was intended to
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