Vatrix's Campaign Fixes

[Esthlos]

To add to Market discussion. If there's a market, there should be a mission based around it, that relies on it and teaches player to take advantage of it. One such example of "optional" building is Towers, which are essential element of TSK 8 iirc.

Maybe in one of the missions the player could be given just enough Stone to build a market, with no stone deposits whatsoever available on the map?

Maybe on mission 20, since it already has no stone deposits?
(As a compensation, the player could be given more starting food or gold or wood?)

Or is mission 20 too late in the campaign?

Or maybe it could be done on mission 2, removing the Gold Chests from the Storehouse instead?

However tailoring TSK campaign around Market does not sound right, so these above are just some thoughts on the topic.

Oh, uhm, right, of course.

[The Dark Lord]

Mission difficulty is very subjective and depends also on the strategy utilized by the player. I might find mission 2 harder than mission 9. Doesn't mean something should be changed. You can make a list with desired order of difficulty, but please don't edit the missions to fit that list.

[Vatrix]

@Everyone
Esthlos made a very good script to fulfil guideline number 5.
Look at how it works:
--old--

Also I still don't know what to do with market...

@TDL
How The Dark Lord commands!

[zombie01]

@Everyone
Esthlos made a very good script to fulfil guideline number 5.
Look at how it works:

TSK 8 - City defending.rar

Also I still don't know what to do with market...

@TDL
How The Dark Lord commands!

The market should be in the TPR campaign since it feels like a TPR building (like the workshop and the townhall).
One of the missions we'll exhaust a resource and then the market is the only way to get the stuff you want.
A mission with an ally since it's plausible to trade with an ally through the marketplace for supplies instead of with "the marketplace".
But that is for later.

[Everstill]

To add to Market discussion. If there's a market, there should be a mission based around it, that relies on it and teaches player to take advantage of it. One such example of "optional" building is Towers, which are essential element of TSK 8 iirc. However tailoring TSK campaign around Market does not sound right, so these above are just some thoughts on the topic.

To add to Market discussion. If there's a market, there should be a mission based around it, that relies on it and teaches player to take advantage of it. One such example of "optional" building is Towers, which are essential element of TSK 8 iirc.

Maybe in one of the missions the player could be given just enough Stone to build a market, with no stone deposits whatsoever available on the map?

Maybe on mission 20, since it already has no stone deposits?
(As a compensation, the player could be given more starting food or gold or wood?)

Or is mission 20 too late in the campaign?

Or maybe it could be done on mission 2, removing the Gold Chests from the Storehouse instead?

However tailoring TSK campaign around Market does not sound right, so these above are just some thoughts on the topic.

Oh, uhm, right, of course.

It is a good idea for Mission 2, Remove all the gold chests from the Storehouse, put a Market and put a lot of other resources in the Storehouse to trade for Gold, a little message can explain the things. As the Remake is based on TSK, to new players this is a good introduction to the new building. However, this must be the only mission tha relies on the Market, after this, it must be optional to the player to build the market or not, just like the Watchtower in TSK 8.

In the TPR Campaign however, all the missions that relies on the Town Hall and Siege Workshop can be changed to Market based.

Mission difficulty is very subjective and depends also on the strategy utilized by the player. I might find mission 2 harder than mission 9. Doesn't mean something should be changed. You can make a list with desired order of difficulty, but please don't edit the missions to fit that list.

So, no progressing difficult? The mission must be edited to change the difficult.

@Vatrix

I can't watch the replay of the Defending AI, a 'know bug' of consistency is happening and stoping in 5 seconds.

[Vatrix]

Strange, I did not have any problem watching the replay. I'll upload it on youtube, soon. (hopefully...please don't kill me)

[Esthlos]

As far as I know you need the same map and script the replay was recorded in in order to view it.

[Vatrix]

Ok, just edited post above

[Krom]

@Esthlos: That is not so. All the required info is included into the BAS file

[Esthlos]

@Esthlos: That is not so. All the required info is included into the BAS file

My bad, I though it recorded only the map's starting situation and player's actions, and not scripted events too.

But then, what is that "known bug"?

[Everstill]

I even downloaded the Map provided and replaced but it don't work. The message that appears is:

"Warning

"The replay failed in a consistency check. This is a know bug, that affects the reproduction of some replays. You want to continue watching?"

(it is in my native language and I translated, I don't know if the message is the same in the english files)

Someone have this issue too? (I already download other replays and they worked fine, this one that is not working)

[Vatrix]

Inspiration from this:

Just to note: KaM Remake is a remake of KaM TSK. We have added some features from TPR and some from scratch. Balance changed during the years, so even basic TSK campaign can not be played exactly like it was intended to (which is grey area, because it changed with SR patches too)

I've been thinking about my The Shattered Kingdom Patch today. I realized that I've gone too far from my first goal, which was to make this campaign as close as possible to 1998 TSK. I've made too many changes and some of them are not corresponding to original campaign. I came to the conclusion that it is not possible with KaM Remake mechanics, so I've made a list (again, duh) of some things I want to confirm or decline from you all. It's about possible changes I can make in TSK.

List (you can just write numbers, YES/NO and why):
1) adjusting old build order (build order like we all remember it)
2) allowing fisherman (if yes, then I'll edit the number of fish in each mission)
3) allowing market (with proper balancing and logic thinking - no knights in second mission TDL )
4) rebuilding AI cities (this is really needed, since AI cities are not working properly in Remake - iron distribution, farms, number of fields,...)
5) complete reworking of AI defence positions (I've already made some changes, but it's still not perfect)
6) pre-building AI cities (temporary)
7) script for infinite ores for AI (better than having it in storehouse - traffic jams, script will stop working if mine is destroyed)
8) changing colors to be close to original (I already changed colors in my 1.0 patch)
9) making impossible to sneak in and destroy AI city (with Esthlos's dynamic script)
10) making impossible to defeat any AI with starting army (normal strategy, not with cmowlas tactic, example is mission 4 where I added some troops to enemy)
11) changing number of starting AI troops

I've just written this as it went on my mind, so sorry for jumping in subjects .

I know we've already discussed some of these things, but opinions are changing and evolving. I need as much opinions as you can give me.
More things can be added in this list .

Thank you all for support!

[Esthlos]

7) script for infinite ores for AI (better than having it in storehouse - traffic jams, script will stop working if mine is destroyed)

Yes, please!
(Even just a more efficient town layout, without the actual endless ore, would be good to me).

[Everstill]

Inspiration from this:

Just to note: KaM Remake is a remake of KaM TSK. We have added some features from TPR and some from scratch. Balance changed during the years, so even basic TSK campaign can not be played exactly like it was intended to (which is grey area, because it changed with SR patches too)

I've been thinking about my The Shattered Kingdom Patch today. I realized that I've gone too far from my first goal, which was to make this campaign as close as possible to 1998 TSK. I've made too many changes and some of them are not corresponding to original campaign. I came to the conclusion that it is not possible with KaM Remake mechanics, so I've made a list (again, duh) of some things I want to confirm or decline from you all. It's about possible changes I can make in TSK.

List (you can just write numbers, YES/NO and why):
1) adjusting old build order (build order like we all remember it)
2) allowing fisherman (if yes, then I'll edit the number of fish in each mission)
3) allowing market (with proper balancing and logic thinking - no knights in second mission TDL )
4) rebuilding AI cities (this is really needed, since AI cities are not working properly in Remake - iron distribution, farms, number of fields,...)
5) complete reworking of AI defence positions (I've already made some changes, but it's still not perfect)
6) pre-building AI cities (temporary)
7) script for infinite ores for AI (better than having it in storehouse - traffic jams, script will stop working if mine is destroyed)
8) changing colors to be close to original (I already changed colors in my 1.0 patch)
9) making impossible to sneak in and destroy AI city (with Esthlos's dynamic script)
10) making impossible to defeat any AI with starting army (normal strategy, not with cmowlas tactic, example is mission 4 where I added some troops to enemy)
11) changing number of starting AI troops

I've just written this as it went on my mind, so sorry for jumping in subjects .

I know we've already discussed some of these things, but opinions are changing and evolving. I need as much opinions as you can give me.
More things can be added in this list .

Thank you all for support!

Your effort to make the best decisions are very honorable. I will give again my feedback to sumarize it in your format. (also, can you describe the AI city defense? you know, replay problems)

1) Any. Build order just change how fast you access buildings, this only change the balance of how many time you give to AI to produce army and attack.
2) YES. It is THE Remake Campaign, it's fair to put all it's features.
3) YES. Again, Market is one of the main features of Remake, but the Campaign should not rely on it, it must be a secondary optional building, like a Watch Tower. Exception goes to a early mission to introduce the Market.
4) What you mean by rebuilding AI cities? You will remake all it's buildings and positions? Well, I vote YES if you at least keep the desogarnized layout of the Villages, to, well, make it look like a village. Exception goes to Fortress and Big Cities. (like the Morbach city in TSK 9) Also, can you literally put a Dynamic Script to make the AI rebuild it's village? What I mean is simple, the AI will have 2-3 Builders, if a building is destroyed, he will try to rebuild it (example, you destroy a Castle, he will try to rebuild it if you leave the village) in the EXACTLY SAME LOCATION, in pratice, he will simple regenerate his village. Exception to Watch Towers, they will not rebuild them. My reason to this is the realistic part of KnM, just like how don't make sense the enemy just leting you ravage the city with sneak troops, I don't see a reason to them having a very big village and not rebuilding that Storehouse that you destroyed.
5) YES. The AI is different in Remake, so naturally it needs a different aproach. Trying to keep as close as possible to what was and the amount of troops is apreciated.
6) NO. But in fact YES because you can keep them pre built until new functions to AI come.
7) Never thought about this. YES. But with the condition that the missions where the AI have a limited number of Ore on purpose (so they change to Leather late game) are kept this way. Missions where the enemy have infinite Iron are your target.
8) YES. Walheim is a cool blue color and not cyan right?
9) YES. There is no reason for this to happen.
10) NO/YES You can make it harder, but missions like TSK 9 for example, have exactly the "time bomb" city to the right. This kind of Villages you can let be destroyed with starting army. (making it harder)
11) NO/YES Unless it is needed. (you can adjust training time too)

I will add the TSK 8 to change the AI to train Barbarians instead of Iron troops.

[The Dark Lord]

1) adjusting old build order (build order like we all remember it)

Yes.

2) allowing fisherman (if yes, then I'll edit the number of fish in each mission)

No. I don't see why this should be done. It wasn't in TSK, so it shouldn't be in TSK.

3) allowing market (with proper balancing and logic thinking - no knights in second mission TDL )

Never. Of course this building shouldn't have been in the Remake in the first place, let alone TSK.

4) rebuilding AI cities (this is really needed, since AI cities are not working properly in Remake - iron distribution, farms, number of fields,...)

No. Usually there are enough wares in the storehouse for the AI to ignore this.

5) complete reworking of AI defence positions (I've already made some changes, but it's still not perfect)

No, why?

6) pre-building AI cities (temporary)

No. The AI should build those villages itself. If it is incapable in doing so, then that's an error in the Remake's AI, not something you can fix.

7) script for infinite ores for AI (better than having it in storehouse - traffic jams, script will stop working if mine is destroyed)

Isn't necessary. You could instead block certain wares in the warehouses like coal, iron ore, gold ore and maybe gold/iron too. This way resources will be depleted much more slowly. Also, it will look really unfair to the player to see that their resources ran out long ago and the AI has infinite natural resources that never deplete.

8) changing colors to be close to original (I already changed colors in my 1.0 patch)

Yes!

9) making impossible to sneak in and destroy AI city (with Esthlos's dynamic script)

Not sure about this one. What was Esthlos' script anyway? How does it work?

10) making impossible to defeat any AI with starting army (normal strategy, not with cmowlas tactic, example is mission 4 where I added some troops to enemy)

No. Although the AI should respond its village being under attack.

11) changing number of starting AI troops

Depends on the quantity (I explained this before).