Copying from other maps

[TheRagingBullet]

Great map

but you have to fix this

[woloszek]

oops....

[Skypper]

Nja Golden cliffs, sorry about that.

[pawel95]

Great map

but you have to fix this

HAHAHHAHAHA FAIL! Nice finding TRB. I really hate that copy paste function because of stealing like in this case

[Skypper]

Personally i don't really see the problem of it, if you don't copy and paste whole maps and call it "your" map.
I have always said that if someone wanted to improve/use my map he was free to do.
Why should some one spend half an hour on something that is already made ?

But if the owner of Golden Cliffs it wants removed i will edit it.

[Vatrix]

I think copying this small part of map isn't a big problem, but if everyone will do the same thing, maps will start to be boring.

[Tiank]

You should ask author of the map before copying anything. It's his hard work after all. I think it's okay if you want to use a part of someone map for some mini game (giving credit for author of course), but still, you have to ask first.

[pawel95]

But if the owner of Golden Cliffs it wants removed i will edit it.

That´s not the point. Tiank just said it. It works everywhere in life like that. If YOU want to copy something, you have actualy to ask the author of a music/game/map/product if you can copy smaller or bigger parts, or use some small things from an other guy. You just wrote that you feel free to use everything you like and if a mapmaker doesn´t like it, he shall write a message to you and THEN you will delete it

[Ben]

In my opinion, that is just sick. That you could even have the nerve to blatantly copy Koczis's cliffs like that is unbelievable. We've had troubles with Paker coping Joymania's maps, but this is just a whole new level in my opinion.

Seriously, just make your own map. And it's only 25ish square-tiles. Why is this plagiarism needed anyway?

[Skypper]

First off all it wasn't meant as stealing his work or something, I just totally didn't thought of it that way.
I am sorry for copying that part of the map, it won't happen again.

I am back on this forum around 2 weeks, when I came back I saw that Andreus and Cmowla both continued editing and improving the map.
They did it while I wasn't here, I am not angry at them that they didn't ask it.
Actually I was quite proud that they still liked my map and wanted to improve it.

for example:

I'll give it a try when I find time

yep, I'm still working on this cool and crazy map, hope Skypper isn't against this

I always found that if someone wanted to edit or use my map or scripts he was free to do and doesn't need to ask it.
Why should some one make the same script or map if it is already made?, I always thought of this like a waste of time..


I am sorry that I copied a part of his map, it won't happen again!

[cmowla]

Delete post. It served its purpose.

[sado1]

(unless one of you all has spent more than 5000 hours just on map making)

The Dark Lord. And I think I might even be serious here. And even if I am not, in my opinion, the fact that you devoted your life (can I call it like that? ) to invent different ways of solving Rubik's cube, doesn't give you the right to tell us that the time we're spending on map making is nothing special (it felt a bit like that, I don't know if that's what you mean). And also, sharing your cube moves benefits everyone that tries to find new ways to solve it, while copying a part of the map benefits mainly the author, since it saves some time to make a nice looking piece of art that a map is; helps him when he has no ideas for a while. Also, of course, might make everyone think he's a better mapmaker than he really is. You might be laughing, but it kinda is a beauty contest, except that it's not about winning it, it's about having as many good mapmakers out there as possible, for the benefit of the whole community. It's not like we're all jerks and want to get The Best KaM Mapmaker Ever crown or something. And there's another thing - I think copying art and copying code is a slightly different thing. Probably all of my dynamic scripts have a permission at the top of the file, to copy it (as long as they mention that I made that script, which I think is not much credit to ask for) and modify as much as they want to. But I wouldn't like someone to copy parts of Frozen Waters or any other map that I made.

There's another thing - I hate to accuse Skypper (especially without much evidence now) and keep saying bad stuff about him, it's not like his motives for copying were bad, he simply didn't realise how does everyone feel about copying here. But

In my opinion, that is just sick.

What, doing an entire map but copying a mere

25ish square-tiles.

?

What exactly makes you think that this is the only thing he ever copied? That is the only thing that was found, there are countless different maps in the Remake, we will never know how much or how few exactly did Skypper re-use, unless he says that himself, or we spend that 5000 hours you mentioned, comparing each smallest area on a map.

I am back on this forum around 2 weeks, when I came back I saw that Andreus and Cmowla both continued editing and improving the map.
They did it while I wasn't here, I am not angry at them that they didn't ask it.
Actually I was quite proud that they still liked my map and wanted to improve it.

for example:

I'll give it a try when I find time

yep, I'm still working on this cool and crazy map, hope Skypper isn't against this

I always found that if someone wanted to edit or use my map or scripts he was free to do and doesn't need to ask it.
Why should some one make the same script or map if it is already made?, I always thought of this like a waste of time..

Copying a place from a map, and using it as its own, without credit is considered bad. Fixing a map - I don't see anything bad about it, but if the author is available, I'd always ask him. And also, andreus made sure everyone knows who made the map. And, if you came back then decided that his work is crap, you would just have to say a word and andreus surely would discontinue it. But it's all very theoretical; fixing other maps is fine there, as long as we're not doing something that is explicitly against map author's choices. For example, if in the new release, people will make Frozen Waters less campy by putting a couple of crappy mountains here and there, and then they will convince everyone to download and play that version, effectively replacing and destroying my creation, I will make sure those people will die xD

(just in case someone wants to know - I think that for personal use, everything is permitted, even such crappy "fixes". So if you want to play just with a couple of friends, that's fine. The problem would start for me, when someone started making other people play it on a massive scale, instead of the version I provided.)

Having said all the above (just to let you see my, or even our point), Skypper said sorry and thats the most he can do now. Why do we still bash him?

[Skypper]

I am quite sure Cmowla didn't meant that making a map " map making is nothing special ".

I have already removed the copied part 3 days ago, but I haven't released a new version of the map yet, because I still need to do some scripting.
And this was the only part of the map that was copied, from an other author than myself.

And the difference between coping codes and maps I don't understand ?

[Guest]

I've spent more hours finding completely original move OPTIMAL move sequences to the 4x4x4 Rubik's cube (which I can bet is A LOT harder to do than make KaM maps), probably more than any of you guys have spent on making KaM maps

Well while I'm sure you spend a lot of time watching at your clock while finding Rubik's cube sequences, you don't know how much time TDL, for example, spend on map making. The fact is, maybe those mapmakers don't brag about it in totally unrelated threads.
How can you judge what is harder than your hobby ? How can you bet that nobody ever spend more hours than you on something they like ? You can't, so please don't base your whole post around it

My opinion is that you should ask the author is nothing is specified in the readme/description, and of course give credits.

[The Dark Lord]

5000 hours almost equals 7 months. There is no way I spent that much time on anything KaM-related, and I seriously doubt cmowla spent that much time on his cube. Either way, it is completely unrelated.

What's worst of all is not that you guys have brought this issue up, but that you, Ben, a Moderator, still insist on dragging this on, to an even more extreme level, mind you, even WAY AFTER Skypper said he was sorry in more than one manner. You need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture here because you're current outlook on this (considering the bigger picture) is disturbing. Please stop trying to make politics out of KaM, because this forum is not CNN.

Ben did not 'insist on dragging this on' as you stated; he merely expressed his opinion about this matter. Something that is completely legal on this forum. The fact that he is a moderator does not mean he can't express his opinion. Besides, it's kind of 'weak play' to try to make Ben feel guilty the way you did. And it was actually after Ben's post that Skypper provided a proper explanation and apology; before that it didn't look like he cared that much ("Why should some one spend half an hour on something that is already made ?").

Now, Skypper might be a nice guy who doesn't mind that people use his scripts, maps or ideas; but not everyone is the same. I, for example, hate it when people copy stuff from me. I spend quite some time on my maps to make them look good. Why should I allow some random guy to copy and paste my work in a matter of minutes and present it as his own?

Apart from all our opinions, Lewin once said that maps with copied parts from other maps in it will not be added to the Remake. So there you go.