Official KaM Remake Ideas topic

[Tiank]

Yep, I totally agree with adding extra button to change pages (however, I think a small arrow would be better than "+" button).

[Ben]

Hey why is there a limit of 10 players in a game? That is, what is holding the current limit of 2 spectators in 8-player games? I it would be great if there could be at least 4, because spectating is very fun

[pawel95]

True Ben. There was a discussion about it before it was implemented in the RC. The main problem is the performance I guess. More players, more lagging (just talking about the average players of KaM ( that are playing with x3 speed xdd )). So I guess Lewin and Krom could also do a 18 player lobby, but I think It´s just about the performance. I see it quite often that there are 2 spectators and one of them will be kicked, because he is lagging and makes the game after PT unplayable for the players

In some other modern games the spectators are completele seperated. That means, the players don´t have any performance problems even when one Spectator is lagging. However this is a huge amoun of work I guess to implement such a system (GOTV in cs go, External Spetating in Dota...).

[Ben]

I'd rather hear the actual reason than speculation. Perhaps a PM would have been more appropriate.

[pawel95]

Hahhahahaa. Man this is a forum. If you wanna forbid me to "speculate" or discuss on a forum, or tellling you for 99% the correct reason why it is actualy like it is, then I think you shouldn´t write on a forum at all, but should ask everything via pm. Seriously

You can always call any post "junk" or "that´s not what I wanted to hear" but then I also can tell you that you could look up for the answer and not ask a question PUBLICY and then asking for a pm because of speculating

Map size
The map size limit is probably not going to go above 256x256 for a few reasons:
- Performance: Some older computers already struggle to run maps of that size, and pathfinding from one side of the map to the other can cause lag with large groups.
- Minimap becomes too small/unreadable.
- Walking from one side of the map to the other takes ages, you end up having to feed your troops before you even get a message about them being hungry for the food to arrive in time, and then the serfs starve on the way home

Map size will restrict the multiplayer player limit because you need a certain amount of space for your village. If you look at existing 256x256 maps, there's probably room for another 2-4 players at the most. So I don't think the multiplayer player limit will go above 12.

Performance
If you add an extra 4 players to your average multiplayer game, that's 50% extra units and houses, and so a significant increase in CPU load. I think a 256x256 map with 12 players at x3 speed could cause lag, but it would need to be tested. Certainly older computers would struggle with it as they already struggle with 256x256 8P x3. More players also means more chance of dropouts, ping spikes, waiting for everyone to click ready, etc.


Overall I think we could consider an increase of the multiplayer player limit to 10 or maybe 12 to add some more variation to the game. And I think we could consider increasing the global player limit to 16 to allow for really big co-operative missions and better control of the AI (could be especially useful with dynamic scripts). It would be another nice feature for the next release.
P

[Ben]

Looks like I struck a nerve. Sorry, mate!


Anyway, this quote of Lewin's doesn't answer my question either. Thanks anyway. I'll wait for a response from Lewin or Krom.

[pawel95]

I'll wait for a response from Lewin or Krom.

It´s fine, but next time just write that in your first post or write them a pm, if you don´t want anyone else (or me) to [try] to answer your question.

[Lewin]

Hey why is there a limit of 10 players in a game? That is, what is holding the current limit of 2 spectators in 8-player games? I it would be great if there could be at least 4, because spectating is very fun

Space in the lobby. Put the game in windowed mode then make the window as small as possible. That is our minimum resolution that we must support (1024x576). More players just won't fit.

It's not performance as in CPU performance or frame rate. Spectators barely affect that since they don't own any assets like houses and units. However, spectators must stay in sync with the game like normal players, so if a spectator lags or has a ping spike/other network issues it will affect everyone. The more spectators (or players), the more likely lag/ping spikes are.

[Ben]

Kk, I figured it had to do with the space of the lobby GUI.

I suppose that a "scrolling bar" (what the heck I can't remember the name) appearing to support additional spectators is too sloppy...?

[Ben]

With the debugging controls (F11), could you implement "Set Spectator Mode" so that you can play like a spectator, clicking freely in storehouses seeing what is in them without having to change the player control each time?

[Krom]

@Ben: Yep, having a scrolling spectators pane is a bad UI

F11 is undocumented thing. What exactly is wrong with changing active player while changing players in F11?

[Ben]

If I want to scroll through a lot of players, it's kinda annoying to have to use the radio buttons each time. In addition, in single player there are often many players with similar colors. It can be frustrating to have to go through every single radio button when you don't know which player it is you seek

[pawel95]

Radio button? HUUH?

[Tiank]

How can you possibly not see it Pawel, it's pretty big:

[The Dark Lord]

xD

@Krom, Lewin: ever thought about co-op campaign compatibility (CCC )? Give me 5 years and I'll make you a nice little co-op campaign! (Or wait for someone else to do it in 6 months.)