KaM Remake -> Multiplayer Demo out!

[AndreeeCZ]

Hello, i discovered your project, i fully support you. Is there a way to donate? I would love to see this remake done! Are you, maybe, planning something like was done with transport tycoon? Maybe OpenKAM? In such case, i would be willing to contribute with music.

Good luck!
Andre

[Lewin]

Hello everyone, time for a news update
Today was the first day of my mid-semester break at university. Because I only started university this year I've been very busy and haven't been doing a lot of work on the Remake. But today I opened up the project again and fixed a bug from original KaM that people have been complaining about for a long time: If a woodcutter goes to cut a tree and finds that a different woodcutter is already cutting it, instead of waiting for the tree to be cut and then returning home, he looks about for another tree and cuts that. If he can't find one he goes back home. This also applies to farmers, stonemasons, fishermen and woodcutters planting trees. (e.g. if a farmer goes to plant corn and finds another farmer planting at his chosen position, he looks for a different place to plant) Hopefully this will cause less frustration for players and make the game engine look smarter. Plus it puts us ahead of KaM

Krom has been mainly working on networking, and I tested it today for the first time in a month or so. The lobby looks great! It allows you to set up a game and type chat between two computers on a LAN, and everything stays in sync. You still can't actually play a multiplayer game yet, but that's coming and we've definitely proven that the networking works. We have planned/structured the protocol to run a game over the network and keep everything in sync, based off the system used in Age of Empires. Soon it will all come together and the Remake will run the first multiplayer game. There's still a lot of work to be done in the low level network protocol, we are using UDP so we need to create some error checking and packet loss detection, especially to use it over the internet. I reckon that within a few months we will have some sort of multiplayer game working.

And now to answer your questions:

When will be this game ready? I'm looking forward to it. Will be a 3D version with nice graphics?

The game won't be "ready" for a while. There are still many things to be done before we can say it's completely finished. However, I hope that soon we will have a playable multiplayer demo and when I get around to fixing up the AI singleplayer should also be playable. We are not planning to use 3D graphics. Perhaps in the future it will be moddable so people can add new units/buildings or change the existing graphics, but to be honest I like the graphics and this is a Remake, not KaM 2.0

Is there a way to donate? I would love to see this remake done! Are you, maybe, planning something like was done with transport tycoon? Maybe OpenKAM? In such case, i would be willing to contribute with music.

We currently don't have a way to donate. There are no financial costs for either of us because we use free hosting, it only costs us time. After reading that I asked a few people whether they thought it would be wrong or illegal to setup a paypal (or similar) donation system for the Remake (e.g. we don't own the graphics so is it illegal to take money for creating something we don't own the copyright to?) and everyone seemed to think that if someone wants to give us money they are allowed to and it doesn't matter, it would only be illegal if we forced people to give us money in order to play it. You're not the first person to offer us money and I think we should seriously consider it.
I haven't heard about what was done with transport tycoon. We discussed using the name OpenKaM but there has already been a previous Remake project with that name. It ended up being abandoned quite a while ago. What did you have in mind? What happened with transport tycoon?

Thanks to everyone for writing here, we appreciate your support
Lewin.

[The Dark Lord]

Great to hear you will continue working on KaM Remake.

I have a question too:

In what aspects will the AI differ from the AI in the original game? Will there be new possibilities for scripting?

[Lithuanian guy]

guys and how about copyright thingy ? wont it be so when creators of original KaM finds about your Remake they will reguest to cancel project ?

I heard there was similar story with Final fantazy or Chrono Triger game - fans wanted to create 3D version of the game , but when creators found out about project they were forced to cancel the project . aren't you afraid of it ?

in anycase , this project progres is amasing

[Krom]

I've been busy whole weeks coding a Network and as Lewin just said it is going somewhere Lobby, chat, map setup - it's all working good enough now. Now comes the big job - setup a network gameplay.. sync all the events.. Work in progress..

@AndreeeCZ: Currently we don't have any expenses, everything is done in our free time and with volunteer support and help from our friends and fellow forum members. Of course you can participate in our project in some other way - e.g., as you suggest, with music. I bet everyone would love to have KaM soundtrack expanded (to mention, reinvented OpenTTD music sounds great, I must admit, OpenTTD is a great inspirational example of Open*** project for me). OpenKAM name was taken long ago, about the same time it was abandoned. I don't know much detail about it sadly.. We can talk about it if you have Skype/ICQ

@The Dark Lord: At the moment we are working on it. Lewis does the AI - so this question is directed to him In my turn - I think will add more scripts not sooner than we finish rigging existing ones

@Lithuanian guy: No, I for myself don't afraid of it. We will burn that bridge when we get to it ...

[xzaz]

Good work guys, i know that networking is always a pain in the ass to create and to make it stable.

[The Knight]

I think, the better name for the remake would be an update like "Service Release 4", because it's not a "real" remake. It uses the original game files, adds no new ecoonomy, fights, houses etc.
The Remake is more than a patch to newer engine or something.
But if the game is in final state, i would attack lewin/krom with this problem (don't forget offering 100% freeplay KaM is also illegal!).

I like the news of Lewin! But this quality-standard isn't new.

EDIT: When can i test TPR units/houses, Mr. lewin Hodgman?

[Siegfried]

If you don't offer the media files, but only your own binaries which depend the files from the original game, then it's not illegal. It's rather an addon than a standalone game then. For example, the collegues from the settlers 2 remake do it that way.

Is there some replay saved from the game? If so, I could report some freezes.

[xzaz]

I shouldn't worry about the legal aspects to much. The only thing they can get you on is that you are using the graphics from the original game. Those guys created KaM in the first place are already happy their is a community (if they even know there is one)

[Krom]

Thanks xzaz, indeed there are many complications making that Net thing to work as we want It's only the tip of the iceberg we are doing with multiplayer now - there are so many things to check and add internally, invisible to player.

[Lewin]

A few days ago I made the AI retaliate when attacked! If you shoot at them, they will hunt down the bowman who shot at them. If you attack their buildings, they will send troops to defend them. If you attack one of their groups in close combat, nearby groups will come to aid them. It's still very basic and has room for a lot of improvement, but it's a start. Playing against the AI is now kind of challenging. Next I plan to implement AI attacks. Once that is done you will be able to play the campaign in the Remake and find it challenging. There's still a problem with bowmen that I have yet to fix, when you tell bowmen to attack they walk into close combat with the enemy. This also means the AI uses them badly. My plan is to make bowmen actually walk AWAY from the target if they are too close. For example, if you tell a bowmen to attack a building when the bowmen is standing right next to the building, he will walk to far enough away from the building to allow him to shoot at it.

I like the news of Lewin! But this quality-standard isn't new.
EDIT: When can i test TPR units/houses, Mr. lewin Hodgman?

Thanks! Well the fisherman's hut works at the moment. They probably wouldn't be hard to add, I just haven't seen it as a priority.

In what aspects will the AI differ from the AI in the original game? Will there be new possibilities for scripting?

The sky is the limit I aim to use all of the existing AI script commands and then start adding new ones. I will also improve the AI's use of existing commands, e.g. don't launch attacks in a single file line and retaliate against attacks better. I have already made luring more difficult by making the AI follow your archer exactly, and not keep stopping. Against mounted units it is basically impossible now because they always catch you. Some of my ideas for new commands are:
- An option to set whether the AI repairs existing buildings, which is different from whether they build new buildings
- A much better auto build system, and maybe also a guided auto build system so the scripter can choose where the AI should build the buildings and at what point of the game they should be ordered.
- Making units appear at a set time (e.g. reinforcements from off the edge of the map)

If you have any requests or ideas let me know. But overall yes, I plan to make the AI much smarter and extend the scripting system.
I would really love to discuss the AI with you. You are the most experienced mission creator around and you understand the script, not just how to use my editor. Could we chat about it on MSN some time? I'd really love to know how YOU think the KaM AI should behave, from the perspective of someone who uses the script. I can make it do just about anything, I'm just not sure what I should make it do. Currently I'm closely copying KaM's behavior but I'm sure together we can improve it Maybe we'll have to appoint you "Chief AI Adviser"

guys and how about copyright thingy ? wont it be so when creators of original KaM finds about your Remake they will reguest to cancel project ?

I heard there was similar story with Final fantazy or Chrono Triger game - fans wanted to create 3D version of the game , but when creators found out about project they were forced to cancel the project . aren't you afraid of it ?

As has already been said, you actually NEED to own KaM to play our Remake. The Remake is a "mod" to KaM that uses the original game resource files (e.g. the unit/house/terrain sprites) with a different EXE. When we release a more complete version the install will check to see where you have KaM installed and install our EXE (and any additional resources) in the same folder. However, when you download the Remake you will not be downloading the game sprites, they are taken from your existing install of KaM. This means our project is in the interest of the copyright owners, because if people want to play our Remake we will ask them to buy a copy of KaM from a website like GOG.com, and if they don't they will not have the required game files and the installer will not work. Sure, some people will pirate those files, but they already do so...
We are just creating a giant "mod" to KaM in the form of a new EXE. We are not making them lose money by giving away their game for free.

As for donations, Krom is right, we have no expenses except for our time. I wouldn't complain if I was being paid to write the Remake, but I don't think donations in my pocket would necessarily make me spend any extra time on it and I'd feel bad taking money from fans who are donating in the hope to see the Remake completed sooner. I asked some friends about the legal issues with this, and everyone seemed to think it wouldn't be a problem because if someone wants to give me money they are allowed to, no matter what the reason. If we ASKED for donations for forced people to pay to download it, then that would be a problem because we don't own the copyright to the game resources. And anyway, this project is a hobby, getting paid for it might take the fun out of it

I'd be interested to hear other people's opinions on these things.
Lewin.

[Siegfried]

Small bug I noticed: when you destroy a house during building process, the statistic screen still shows one building to be build.

[The Dark Lord]

The sky is the limit I aim to use all of the existing AI script commands and then start adding new ones. I will also improve the AI's use of existing commands, e.g. don't launch attacks in a single file line and retaliate against attacks better. I have already made luring more difficult by making the AI follow your archer exactly, and not keep stopping. Against mounted units it is basically impossible now because they always catch you.

That sounds promising. The AI has always been KaM's weakness.

I would really love to discuss the AI with you. You are the most experienced mission creator around and you understand the script, not just how to use my editor. Could we chat about it on MSN some time?

We sure can. This week I won't have much time, but next week I'll be available!

[Lewin]

Small bug I noticed: when you destroy a house during building process, the statistic screen still shows one building to be build.

Thanks for reporting that, I have fixed it I also unearthed a few other bugs in the statistics/building queue which I have fixed or added todo items for. Well spotted!

We sure can. This week I won't have much time, but next week I'll be available!

If you see me online and have time then please chat to me, hopefully I'll be available too. If I'm not online send me an email and we can arrange a time. I'd really love to work out a new and improved AI system for KaM, mainly around how they use troops.

[Ben]

This is kinda random, but will the remake include speed changes for multiplayer? Like normal, fast (between normal and F8 ) and very fast (F8 )?

I think F8 is too fast, but perhaps something in between would be good? all players should be able to change speeds whenever they want, unless there was a lock speed option, which would be almost 100% necessary.

I think its a great idea, but that's me. I just wish I could help more with the remake.